Examining Allyship and Intersectionality of LGBTQIA+

Emily St. Amant:

Welcome to The Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association. Today we are going to listen in on a conversation between Dr. Tamekia Bell and Dr. Tameeka Hunter on intersectionality and allyship of the LGBTQIA+ community.

Dr. Tamekia Bell (she/her) is an educator, advocate, supervisor, researcher, and counselor. Dr. Bell acknowledges both her privileged and marginalized identities in the work she engages in. Dr. Bell currently serves as an ACA division president for SAIGE, which stands for the Society for Sexual, Affectional, Intersex, and Gender Expansive Identities.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter is a tenure track assistant professor, an intersectional diversity and social justice scholar, a professional diversity speaker, and a researcher. Her research focuses on the resilience of marginalized and multiply marginalized populations, including people living with disabilities and chronic illnesses, people of color, sexual- and gender-expansive people, and women.

Her work examines the impact of resilience and strength-based approaches on marginalized and multiply marginalized populations.

Welcome Dr. Hunter and Dr. Bell, how are you doing today?

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Hi, Dr. Hunter. How are you?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Hello, Dr. Bell. How are you? I'm great, thank you.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Good. Happy pride.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Thank you. Same.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Thank you for being a part of this conversation. I just want to start with what is intersectionality and how does this framework apply to the LGBTQIA+ individuals in terms of equity for all individuals within the community as well?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Intersectionality is really important within the sexual and gender expansive communities. Because if you think about intersectionality, it's inherently non-binary, right? It's not giving you a set of two options to choose from around social location or social identity. Intersectionality is really the study of the interaction between social identity structures while examining power and privilege structures. Intersectionality started out as a discussion around how race and gender interact. All of it, all discussions around intersectionality are grounded within Black feminist thought.

It came out of a realization of Black women that movements that were led by men often had sexist overtones, misogynistic overtones, misogynoiristic overtones. Those movements did not necessarily represent the needs of Black women. Same is true for organizations and movements that were led by White women. There's an understanding that race plays a part, and so that race then makes some of those movements not... Well, better way of saying it is that race was not attended to and the unique needs of Black women were not attended to. Those are the origins of intersectionality.

I think what's important to know about it is that when we're talking about the different social locations, race, ability status, sexual and gender orientations and expansiveness, that it's not additive or multiplicative. The fact that you have more than one marginalized identity or multiply marginalized identities means that you have unique experiences that can't be parsed out on either one of those identities.

Once you combine say race and disability, race and ability status, then the experiences or unique experiences of interlocking oppression. Intersectionality looks to expand the way that we see people and see people in their fullness and all their identities, rather than being confined to a binary.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

I think you explained that so eloquently because I was thinking about when I engage in conversations with my students about this important topic is that I tell them that we are not monolithic, we are multiple identities of privilege and marginalized identities. Myself, I have marginalized identities, but I also have privileged identities. Those identities shape our lived experience as far as how we navigate our environments, workplaces, churches, communities, school, universities.

That's unique, as you've mentioned, Dr. Hunter, to each individual. It's important in our work that we think about that from... If we're working with clients, if we're working with students, think about programming, we need to think about that to make sure the needs of the individuals we're serving that those needs are met.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Absolutely. You sparked a thought for me regarding intersectionality because... I identify as Black and African American. I like to honor my African heritage, so I identify as both. I'm also a person who has a lifelong physical disability and I use a motorized wheelchair. I also identify as queer and a woman. There's lots of intersections. I'm sure that that had a lot to do with my whole research arc and what I focused on. But I think it's important for me to talk about the fact that before I became a professor, I used to be in student affairs in higher education, the director of accessibility services. I think because I have four marginalized identities, I came into that work almost with this hotty confidence around diversity.

I have four marginalized identities. What can anybody tell me about... I got this. Right. What can anybody tell me about diversity? But what would happen is... I'm not sure if you're familiar with Georgia Institute of Technology or Georgia Tech as it's called, but it's a public high-achieving math, science, and engineering university in Georgia. When I worked there, what I noticed is that most of the students that were served through the access office were students with learning disabilities, attention deficit disorder, and things like that. Non-apparent. They were non-apparent disabilities.

I would have professors that would call me and say, I was miss then, "Ms. Hunter, I don't know why Amir is getting accommodations from your office. If they're smart enough to get into Georgia Tech, how could they possibly have a disability," which that statement in and of itself is ableist. But from the standpoint of understanding these are data people, I would often say, well, the area of the brain that controls the executive functioning, the frontal lobe, and explain that kind of thing. But what that made me realize is that even with my four marginalized identities, because I have a mobility aid, because my disability is obvious, no one ever asks me to legitimize my disability for them.

That's something that people with non-apparent disabilities experience all the time, or chronic illnesses like fibromyalgia, things that relapse and remit. I brought that up to say that even with all my four marginalized identities, it's important that we approach this work with cultural humility because there's always something to learn. I carry that with me just to be mindful, to continue to be humble regardless of my social locations and level of diversity.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that experience. As a faculty member who's worked with accessibility offices on campus, that tends to be a common trend among some faculty at some universities. I think when you talked about cultural humility, I think it leads into my next question about what does it mean to be an ally for individuals representing the multiple intersectional identities within the LGBTQIA+ community? What does this look like in action?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

I think the first thing that comes to mind for me as a member of the community and a professional within the community as well is that ally is not a title that you give yourself. It's bestowed by the community. The question is, does the community that you claim to be an ally to and with, do they consider you an ally? If you're not in the room, do they call you an ally? I think that's really important to understand that allyship is a title bestowed by the community that you're talking about, not one that you get to claim for yourself. But what it looks like in action is where you bring up the voices of the people who are not in the room or create those opportunities for those voices to be in the room.

By offering pronouns upfront, which mine are she, her, hers, offering those pronouns upfront, not calling them preferred, using the terminology and naming conventions of the individual that you're working with, your initial documents. I don't say intake documents because that's medical model, although it's not all bad, but I say initial documents indicate things that are more inclusive like partner and spouse, those kinds of things. Places where the names that clients would like you to use, there's a place to put those, even if that might differ from say a legal name and use those and be consistent.

And also, if you make a mistake, and mistakes happen, we're human, offer yourself grace, but then quickly correct yourself. Correct it. Use the proper name or pronoun. Don't make it the responsibility of the client, the LGBTQIA+ client, to make you feel better about the mistake you made, because that's a form of oppression too. Those are some things off the top of my head around allyship that I think are important. They sound rudimentary, and they are, but I think that it's important that incremental progress is still... People, remember that incremental progress is still progress. Those little things that we can do to affirm people lead to the bigger changes and shifts in community with folks.

We have to free ourselves of the belief and the perfectionism. It takes a certain person to pursue a graduate degree in the first place, right? Some of that perfectionism will stop us from doing even the small things that we consider "small," but might mean everything to the person that's a part of that community, because it might be the first time that they are affirmed. I think you can even start with small progress, but that still is progress.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Thank you so much. Because as you were talking, I was thinking about my journey to allyship, which I did a webinar with SAIGE, I think it was back in October 2019, talking about my journey to allyship. One of the things is exactly what you said, I was a self-proclaimed ally. I call myself an ally, like, "Oh, I'm doing this, I'm doing that." But I don't think I was... Ain't no thinking. I wasn't doing it the right way. I was inserting myself where I thought I should be at the time.

I inserted myself probably at spaces that I shouldn't have inserted myself in as far as they're open meetings, but still it's a safe place for LGBTQIA+ individuals to gather and to meet. I inserted there, because it was public information. I just was like, "Oh, I'm going to go. Yes." I talk about this about how I was like I guess I expected a parade that I was there because look at me, ally of the year. I was like, "Why is no one happy I'm here?" I mean, they probably were, but I expected more.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

You're a delight. Probably not a parade though.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Probably not a parade. But as I reflect on that, I was like, what was I thinking invading in that space? It was just about me doing things that I thought I should do instead of asking, which I ask now, how can I use my privilege to better assist the cause? Where do you need me?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Exactly.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

I use the word more accomplice, because for me, accomplice is like... This is how I use it, is that I am the bulletproof vest. I am using me as a shield for you. I am there. If you go down, we're going down together. I'm in this fight with you and on behalf of you. That's how I see accomplicehood, which I'm not even sure if that's a word, but it is today, my accomplicehood. I see allyship as the beginning place a little bit. And then what we ascribe for is to be that accomplice. Where do you need me?

Where do I fit? I will do what is needed. I usually ask first as far as where I'm needed, but sometimes that does also put the burden on individuals too. But still too I sometimes like to ask the permission. I think one of the things that I think I get a little bit overexcited and I can be like I don't want to say pushy sometimes, but I've just really want to help, really want to advocate, really want to continue to be that accomplice, and I think maybe sometimes I may come... Sometimes I wonder, am I coming off a little bit too overbearing, too excited?

 Because this is a very important issue for me. But yeah, thank you for sharing that because I was like, yep, that's where I was in the beginning of my journey. I was like, I'm an ally and now I'm bestowed. Well, not now, but I've been bestowed the title for several years is that yes, you are an ally. You're an accomplice actually now.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Right. You're an ally. You're an accomplice. You're a co-conspirator, which I also like that term.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Oh yes. I love the term co-conspirator. Yes.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

I don't want us to lose the point that allyship is super important. It's just about how we approach it, right? We're not defining for the community what's important. I do think it's okay to ask the question. I mean, the question of, what are the needs? You can even ask the question of, if you think this is going to be burdensome, do you have the capacity for me to ask you a question about supporting the community? It takes more words, it takes a little bit more effort, but it's recognizing that there is labor involved.

But we also recognize as part of the community, we must have allies, we must have accomplices, we must have co-conspirators to change the way things are. Because otherwise, we're... Another one of my social locations is Southern. Otherwise, we're preaching to the choir. We need those people in places to amplify our voices, to provide those opportunities in rooms that we are not in to talk about the things that are important to us.

Either it's amplification of voices from the community or directly or since you are, I mean, you're the president of SAIGE, so you are in a position where you're in room sometimes where we're not. I do believe from my involvement in SAIGE that we trust you to bring those issues forth. Just the fact that you're thinking about the nuances between allyship and being an accomplice and a co-conspirator, all those things indicate that you have awareness around it and make you a safe person.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Thank you, Dr. Hunter. I appreciate that. In addition to that, I think it's important to think about also to the diversity within the community, our BIPOC members, our members of different abilities, different spiritual, religious identities, and the list goes on. Because I think primarily a lot of time... Well, in the media, number one is usually focused on gay. It tends to be very white cisgender male.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

White male.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Is what it tends to focus on. I think it's getting a little bit better where we're seeing more gender expansive and BIPOC individuals as well. I think it is getting a little bit better, but primarily I think when people think about the LGBTQIA+ community, it was White cisgender male.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Right, because that's patriarchy. They still have this hierarchical structure, social structure. White men, even if they're gay, still also are at the top of that kind of chain.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Exactly.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

But I do see some improvements in terms of representation.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Right, exactly. This leads into a little bit of my next question specifically about advocacy, which we talked a little bit about. When it comes to advocacy for the protection of the LGBTQIA+ community, what actions can counselors take in response to the legislation we're seeing to further marginalize individuals within this community?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Well, I think it's a little interesting. My social locations converge here and make this complicated for me and lots of people who are sexually and gender expansive people and professionals in the counseling profession because the legislation is both professionally harmful, as well as personally harmful. In those cases, I think it's important to engage in SAIGE, to engage in the different divisions where you find a home and safety to bring up those issues, but recognize that you are not alone.

It's important not to become isolated and recognize that this is a shared fight. When you need to take a moment and offer yourself grace and back off, trust that the work will still get done. It's important that you have self-care, because this is really challenging on multiple levels. As I said, I have four marginalized identities and every day I feel like they're being assaulted in some way or another with legislation.

I think it's important to give ourselves permission to enter and take a pause from those efforts, get involved with the divisions that are working toward reversing some of this, or at least challenging it, but then take your breaks where you need to.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Absolutely. I think considering the current sociopolitical climate that is going on across our country, excuse me, I think that's crucial. Because as one with marginalized identities, it can get exhausting sometimes. I think what you're saying is very important as far as finding those groups, finding that community like SAIGE, like CSJ, AMCD, ACES, a lot of our divisions within ACA that are doing and having public policy and having these dialogues and making public statements about these issues, and also connecting with ACA Governing Affairs, excuse me, as well too, because it does get tiring. Sometimes it does feel like we're in this fight alone.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

It's easy to feel isolated.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

It's very much easy to feel isolated.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

But also you have to offer yourself grace and breaks because it is quite taxing, because it just is an onslaught right now.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Right, exactly. My next question talks a little bit about providing culturally responsive care and identity affirming care. In terms of providing culturally responsive care and identity affirming care, what suggestions do you have for counselors?

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

First of all, I would say that we would want to avoid the assumption of salience. This is something I coined myself through my professional and personal experiences, avoid the assumption of salience. When I was looking for a couples counselor at one point, we come into the room and the counselor says... Because I use a motorized wheelchair. We come into the room and the counselor says, "Oh, well, I see that you have a disability," which yes, "I see that you have a disability, and I'm sure that that has caused some problems in your relationship. Tell me about that." First of all, I would like to be able to say that my disability absolves me from all other familial and relational issues and problems, but it doesn't, right?

But with her saying that upon an initial meeting even indicates a bias. She assumes that my disability is the presenting issue, and it is not. It was not. That was not why we were there. Avoid the assumption of salience. Ask about the identities. Don't be afraid. I mean, broaching sexual identity, gender identity, disability, all of those things are the responsibility of the counselor, but just don't assume that those identities are what the presenting concerns are. I think that's really important.

Again, some of the things that we talked about earlier about the documents that you use, those can be affirming and putting that information out upfront, but also asking what is the presenting concern rather than assuming you know what the concern will be. I think those are some of the things that can help us in practice to be more affirming. The other thing in terms of research, I don't know you know, is that we have to move away from the... If we're looking at intersectional research and affirming research, we have to move away from the majority to minoritized group comparisons, because you're setting up a deficit.

If you are comparing majority culture to minoritized culture, you're setting up a deficit model in your research. If you really want to understand what's going on in a community, you need to look at those within group differences, recognizing and acknowledging something you said earlier, we are not amorphous, and structuring our studies to understand the differences within those communities with intersectional identities. That's really important. I want to be clear that the majority to minoritized group research is important.

It's taught us a lot, but we have a lot of it. There needs to be more of a balance in the literature and as it relates to informing our practice. We need to do more within group research and practice approaches based on what we learned from that research. I think that's really important.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

I think you brought up really great suggestions as far as things that counselors can do from the initial paperwork that you had mentioned earlier. Even just in their signature, adding their pronouns or broaching in counseling sessions, which is something that I do. When I do free consultations, I do that and I tell them why I do that, because that is part of our lived experience. Like we mentioned earlier, those things shape our lived experience. It's important. It's also like, I'm Black, I'm a woman. You could see that, but there are other parts of my identity that you can't see.

I have found in my work with clients that it allowed them at some point in the sessions, not necessarily what they initially came in with, but as they were experiencing issues during our time together, they started opening up about the racism, sexism, any of the isms that they've been experiencing in their environment, and I was able to process. I'm not sure, I do not think those conversations would've taken place if I hadn't started off like that. They know where I'm coming from in that consultation.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Absolutely.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

I appreciate that you said that.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Yes, absolutely. I just think those incremental, affirming things do help us. Well, now, President Bell, I have a question for you.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Okay.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

For those counselors who are tuning in and want to know more about SAIGE, what can you share about the organization, its purpose, and how people can get involved?

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Absolutely. My presidency is coming to an end. June 30th is my last day. And then my president elect, Dr. Rob McKinney, will be the president. Some things that we have moving forward is because of all of the anti-LGBTQ+ legislation that's been going on, we have a very active public policy committee, and they're going to be holding community spaces for our members to just get together, connect. Again, talking about what we were discussing earlier about it can be isolating. You could feel like you're alone in the fight.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Demoralizing.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Yeah. Our public policy committee has some of that, and we sent some of that out to our members. We have our virtual conference coming up in October. It will be throughout the month of October, and the theme is transforming global LGBTGEQIAP+ mental health. It will be through the entire month of October. If you want to get involved with SAIGE, you could visit our website. It is www.saige, S-A-I-G-E, counseling.org. We have information on there about our mission, information on our initialism, because we use LGBTGEQIAP+.

You could check out our website to get a background as to why we use the initialism that we do. Our board, we have lots of committees. If you want to get involved and volunteer, we would love to have you there. Some other things that we're doing is really working on our organizational structure, which has been a mission and goal of mine to really tighten up our organizational structure. Working on our bylaws and policy and procedures. We have a running joke on the board about it's the "not sexy stuff," but it's the important stuff to keep our organization functioning.

But our president-elect is working on updating our competencies because they are a little dated and a lot has happened in the I think roughly about 10 years since they were developed. We hope to have that completed during his presidency as well. If you're looking to get involved, check out our website. You can email me right now.

My email address is president@saigecounseling.org, and I will be sure to connect you on the committees that you're interested in, or I'll try to gauge interest to see what you might be interested in helping with. We would love to have volunteers. With everything going on, we do have a lot of work to do, so any help would be good.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Sounds like lots of ways to get involved. Come join us.

Dr. Tamekia Bell:

Yes, yes. Thank you, Dr. Hunter, for having this conversation with me today. I appreciate your time and thank you very much.

Dr. Tameeka Hunter:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I've enjoyed it.

Emily St. Amant:

Dr. Bell and Dr. Hunter, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your wisdom and insight during this episode. Thank you so much to our listeners for joining in. We will definitely include some of those resources in the description box mentioned in the episode. Be sure to subscribe to The Voice of Counseling Podcast.

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