Voice of Counseling Podcast

The Voice of Counseling Podcast

Episode Transcripts

Creating Pathways to the Counseling Profession for Students of Color (featuring Dr. Leonissa Johnson with HBCU Cares)

by Joseph Peters | Feb 23, 2023

 

Christa Butler:

Welcome to the Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association. I'm Christa Butler, co-hosting with Danielle Irving. Joining us today is Dr. Leonissa Johnson, who is here to talk about creating pathways for students of color into the counseling profession. Dr. Leonissa Johnson is an associate professor at Clark Atlanta University in the Department of Counselor Education. Dr. Johnson also serves as the director of the HBCU Center for Excellence in Behavioral Health.

Christa Butler:

The center's key initiative, HBCU Career Awareness, Recruitment and Engagement Services, HBCU C.A.R.E.S. for short, aims to increase awareness of careers in behavioral health. This program offers professional development to select graduate and professional students in behavioral health-related programs at historically Black colleges and universities. To date, the center has reached students at over 50 HBCUs.

Christa Butler:

Dr. Johnson began her career as a school counselor, and she is passionate about students receiving the supports required for success at all academic levels. Dr. Johnson, thank you so much for joining us today. Could you tell us more about the work that you do with HBCU C.A.R.E.S.?

Leonissa Johnson:

Sure. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here and happy to share a little bit more about HBCU C.A.R.E.S.. So HBCU C.A.R.E.S. is part of the HBCU Center for Excellence in Behavioral Health. We are a center that's funded by SAMHSA, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. We're proudly housed at Clark Atlanta University in the School of Education, specifically in the Department of Counselor Education. Our goal is to help increase awareness of and provide access to behavioral health fields for diverse students, but we specifically engage in outreach with students at HBCUs.

Christa Butler:

Yes, thank you for sharing that. I'm sure that our listeners that are tuning in would like to know more about HBCU C.A.R.E.S. and how they can get involved and the great services that you all do, which we'll be talking more about as we have our discussion today.

Danielle Irving:

For students wishing to get involved, what do they need to know specifically?

Leonissa Johnson:

The biggest piece would be we have a website. I can back up a little and share a little bit about why we exist in the first place. So one thing we know is that there have been increased mental health and addictions-related needs. This was the case pre COVID-19, and the needs have continued to increase. We also have behavioral health practitioner shortages. The US Department of Health Resources and Services Administration, they predict that by 2030 there will not be enough of various behavioral health practitioners, so counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists, nurses, and social workers.

Leonissa Johnson:

So specifically as we're thinking about counseling, they predict a national shortage of addictions counselors. But even with state shortages, like mental health counselors, marriage and family therapists, for example, there also are predictions in various states that there will not be enough. So our goal is to help increase the number of behavioral health practitioners, specifically diverse behavioral health practitioners.

Leonissa Johnson:

We have a website that has information about behavioral health fields, behavioral health careers. We also have a advisory council that provides resources and partnerships, helps us build partnerships across the country. And then we finally have a behavioral health ambassador program. That's a way that students both can help get information and get support on their journeys to behavioral health careers, but also it's a way for students to learn about behavioral health career opportunities.

Leonissa Johnson:

So one way that they can get more information is by visiting our website, which is www.myhbcucares.org. So that is one resource there.

Christa Butler:

Thanks for sharing that. We'll make sure to include the website in our show notes. You were speaking to the shortage of behavioral health providers, and I know with HBCU C.A.R.E.S., you all focus specifically on students and professionals at HBCU C.A.R.E.S. I think one of the tremendous benefits of that is the aim to reach providers of color because we also know that there's a shortage of providers of color in mental health and then behavior health.

Christa Butler:

It's important that we're diversified in the profession and being able to represent diverse backgrounds and intersectionalities. So I think it's wonderful what you all are doing with your program in terms of meeting those students that attend HBCUs and are interested in pursuing schooling in behavioral and mental health.

Leonissa Johnson:

Yes. Thank you for that. I think you make a good point about both the need for diverse practitioners because along with those national shortages, there are also diverse practitioner shortages. There are just smaller percentages of behavioral health practitioners of diverse backgrounds. So HBCUs, historically Black colleges and universities, are a rich ground to engage in outreach.

Leonissa Johnson:

United Negro College Fund, they note that HBCUs confer about 17% of bachelor's degrees awarded to Black students in the US, and also HBCUs have diverse students of all backgrounds. HBCUs have a good track record of helping students, their graduates in particular, enter professions. Marybeth Gasman at Minority Serving Institute, they note that HBCUs supply more Black applicants to medical school. Or the Thurgood Marshall Fund notes that HBCUs help produce 40% of Black engineers, 50% of Black attorneys.

Leonissa Johnson:

So because of the record of helping students at HBCUs access professions and then also noting that so many of our behavioral health fields are professional degrees and require additional training post that undergraduate degree, it makes sense to do this work at many campuses, but also at historically Black colleges and universities. So we're really proud that we get to engage in this work, in this space, and in this sphere that makes such an important contribution across fields.

Christa Butler:

What I've learned about HBCU C.A.R.E.S. specifically is that you all have reached about 50 HBCUs, right?

Leonissa Johnson:

Yeah.

Christa Butler:

So that speaks to the large potential audience that you all are able to engage in potentially pursuing a career in behavioral health or mental health.

Leonissa Johnson:

Yes. Thank you so much. Our goal is to reach students at all HBCUs, and so we're continuing to grow. We have different ways that we engage in outreach through our ambassador program and also through our digital resources, such as our website, our newsletter, and we want students and professionals access to the information they need about these fields, about opportunities in these fields, about support opportunities. So we're really proud that it's 50 and growing, the number of schools we've been able to reach and the number of students we've been able to reach through this work.

Leonissa Johnson:

So I will say there are a few things to keep in mind as we think specifically about diverse practitioner recruitment. The University of Michigan, their Behavioral Health Workforce Center conducted a study several years back, and they reached out intentionally to behavioral health practitioners with diverse backgrounds, practitioners of color, to ask what attracted you or what got you to choose the profession. There were several things. Several folks noted personal experiences with behavioral health practitioners.

Leonissa Johnson:

But a few things that really resonated were mentorship from a behavioral health professional was a strong factor in choosing a field in behavioral health, also educational opportunities that explicitly focused on behavioral health or promoted behavioral health, and then just having a positive experience with an individual working in behavioral healthcare. That information absolutely informed the work that we do in the center and the ways that we engage students.

Leonissa Johnson:

But I think it's also things to keep in mind as professionals as we're thinking about helping support and attract more diverse practitioners into the field. So specifically things people can do if it's HBCU-specific, I would say, support students at HBCUs, so building relationships with students. If practitioners can offer internships or positions or mentoring, I think that that's really important.

Leonissa Johnson:

What I would say to students of color who maybe are already pursuing a counseling-related degree is, again, to share what they know about the field with others. Of course, and I say this always, we never know who's watching. So the ways that we deliver our services, the spaces where we deliver our services, just knowing that sharing information about what we do, but also helping folks see how they might be able to be a part of a field or just having a positive experience, I think, can speak volumes and do real work.

Leonissa Johnson:

We've learned more and more about this through the approaches that we've engaged in during our work. So yes. I'm a school counselor by training, So sometimes as school counselors, we encounter students who had a negative experience with a school counselor, and that really resonates with them. I think the opposite is also just as powerful. When people have positive experiences with behavioral health practitioners, particularly when we're engaging in diverse communities, that can also help connect folks and help them think about, "Hey, I might be able to help support people in this way as well."

Christa Butler:

That's a really good point because you're speaking to the experiential learning component of gaining interest in the field and wanting to learn more about it. I think that it speaks to the importance of seeing similarities and seeing things that you may have in common with other professionals in the field as one of those things that may potentially attract someone to wanting to pursue and to learn more about the field as well.

Leonissa Johnson:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Christa Butler:

Could you share more with us about the behavioral health ambassador program with HBCU C.A.R.E.S.? We're really interested in learning more about that today as well.

Leonissa Johnson:

Yes, yes. The behavioral health ambassador program, it's one of our key initiatives. It brings life to this work that we do. The behavioral health ambassador program, we're able to select a cohort of graduate and professional students from HBCUs, and so these are students who are in counseling programs, social work, psychology, and psychiatry. We even have been fortunate to have psychiatry residents. Students are selected to participate.

Leonissa Johnson:

We've been very fortunate. We've had ambassadors from 20 distinct HBCUs, and so that's been really exciting. We're able to select up to 25 members per cohort. One of the ways that we provide support is we want to pour into our ambassadors. So they receive professional development through a monthly professional learning community. They participate in a yearly conference, and they also receive a stipend.

Leonissa Johnson:

So we are able to engage with them in this interprofessional network over the course of their ambassadorship. But in exchange, our ambassadors engage in outreach with undergraduates at HBCUs, and they do this through what we call career presentations and career checks. Career presentations are formal presentations that help define and describe behavioral health fields specifically. These are usually about 28 to 40-minute presentations. They're delivered virtually or in person.

Leonissa Johnson:

They usually have about at least 10 students in order for it to count as a career presentation. So they do presentations about specific career fields in behavioral health. It can be an overarching field, such as counseling. It can be a deeper dive into a subspecialty, such as addictions counseling, or it can be a presentation that maybe talks about a population or a space, so behavioral health supports in schools or behavioral health supports with veterans. It kind of paints a picture of the kinds of roles that folks can play. So those are career presentations.

Leonissa Johnson:

They also can conduct what we call career chats. These are more intimate, more individual or small group-based conversations that they have with undergraduates. These are more informal. The purpose is to help the ambassador share their story with the participants, but also a chance for students to ask those real questions around cultural capital about the field, so that culturally relevant knowledge and skills, just the things that a person may not know, those unwritten rules that they may not know if they're not as familiar with the field.

Leonissa Johnson:

These career chats, they engage with usually one to five students, no more than five because you want it to stay sort of personal. Through the presentations and career chats, the ambassadors have been able to reach students at those over 50 HBCU campuses, and they've been able to reach out to about 2,000 undergraduates through this work. So it's been really powerful to see just how far they've been able to connect with students at various HBCUs, but also how they've been able to both receive and also give back in ways that make a difference and also help spread the word about the work that behavioral health professionals do.

Christa Butler:

I like how it gives folks detailed information about the subspecialties within mental health because, as we know as professionals, the mental health field is very broad. There's so many things that you can do. So having someone that is able to give you a deep dive into a specific specialty is so helpful as a undergraduate student to have that information in advance as you think about potentially pursuing a master's degree in counseling or a behavioral health-related field to have that perspective.

Christa Butler:

I think you may even be a little bit ahead of the game, honestly, to know some of that. So I think that's really great that you all are offering those career chats and the mentoring that you do.

Leonissa Johnson:

Thank you so much. We're really proud of that piece of the program, and it's been really cool to see the difference that it's made for students.

Danielle Irving:

It's an amazing opportunity and, being a HBCU grad myself graduating from Hampton University, I think a wonderful opportunity for just students of color finding a pathway into the profession.

Danielle Irving:

Dr. Johnson, your current research examines the experiences of diverse students in behavioral health training programs. Can you share some of the things that you found from your research that you'd like for counselors to know and even students that are interested in the profession?

Leonissa Johnson:

Absolutely. I'm also a proud Hampton grad, a proud Pirate. So yes. I was very proud. We've had some ambassadors from Hampton. So shout out to Hampton University-

Danielle Irving:

Wonderful. Yes.

Leonissa Johnson:

... and all the wonderful HBCUs. But yeah. I think I'll speak towards some of the things we've been finding just in doing this work with students in behavioral health and so some things we've learned about graduate students and some things we've learned about undergraduates. I think one thing that we have found that's really heartening is that there is real interest in behavioral health fields among diverse undergraduates.

Leonissa Johnson:

When ambassadors conduct those presentations and chats, we have a evaluation that participants complete. The response rate is usually, I guess this past year it was about 30%. But one of the things we ask is, what fields are students interested in? There is real interest in behavioral health fields. There is real interest in counseling. So that's really great to know. Clinical mental health, school counseling, for example. There is that preliminary data that we've looked at.

Leonissa Johnson:

There is some interest in addictions, but not as much. So knowing that there's going to be a shortage, that may be some information that we need to consider and think about as we're continuing to share and engage in outreach. There's also real interest in working with children and adolescents. Now, I will say the data that I'm speaking to specifically, I know that that was data that was collected last year. So we know that there was lots of cries about just the needs for children and adolescents, that their needs were increasing and also for them to have quality services.

Leonissa Johnson:

So based on some of that information, we see that students are interested in pursuing fields in behavioral health that allow them to work with children and adolescents. There was also a strong interest in psychiatry. So again, wondering about the population, wondering about the students that we talked about, and even wondering just about maybe familiarity. It was interesting to see that that was an interest, which is good news because we know that there's a need.

Leonissa Johnson:

But to an earlier point though, a lot of undergraduate participants that we've been able to hear from and thinking about the kind of information that they're wanting, many of them are looking for next steps, so wanting to know how do I find a graduate program or how can I be a successful candidate when I'm in the process of applying. That seemed to be something that participants are wanting more information about.

Leonissa Johnson:

They also are interested in opportunities to get more exposure or see, and so perhaps through things like job shadowing or internships. But they are looking for opportunities to get more experience or exposure to the field. So those are some of the things that we've been learning about undergraduates.

Leonissa Johnson:

As far as our graduate and professional students, mostly a lot of the data we've gotten have been from our ambassadors, so we've had about 100 over the last few years, and also just some other internal assessment information we've done with a few programs. Some of what we've been learning is that students are really needing or seeking out funding while completing their graduate study, so of course, funding for things like tuition, but also funding for other things like the tests that they have to take or applications sometimes come with fees in order for internships or residency in the cases of some of our psychology and psychiatry students.

Leonissa Johnson:

So they're seeking out additional supports in those ways. They also noted just trying to have the balance. And again, this has been interesting. The majority of the time we've done this has been in the thick of COVID-19. But really working to balance personal and family matters along with reaching these goals has been challenging, per some of the data we've been able to see.

Leonissa Johnson:

And then career development supports, career development around charting a path, but also credentials planning and getting clarity about what they need to do, what steps they need to take, what resources they need to have while they're in their program and beyond. So those seem to be some of the areas where graduate students and professional students are saying that they need or would benefit from more support, more information, additional support.

Christa Butler:

A lot of what you spoke to I think would be really helpful for students as they're graduating and approaching perhaps pursuing licensure or searching for employment in the field and knowing which credentials. Again, like you said, some of those next steps are paramount to one's success in the field because I think, many of us, we have to figure those things out as we go. So I think it's great that you all are providing that information in advance as students are approaching those specific milestones in their career.

Leonissa Johnson:

No, thank you. I will say I'm struck by the power of mentoring, the power of those formal ways, but also the power of these more informal ways, like this peer approach to helping folks get information because, overall, the data has been really positive that the undergraduates have found the presentations to be a positive learning experience.

Leonissa Johnson:

They've found the ambassadors to be knowledgeable, and also they've been able to have some of that ... They were able to identify next steps and how to take next steps towards a behavioral health career. It's been humbling to see just the power of that giving back, that outreach, or just sharing that bit of information and how it really has made a difference for students.

Christa Butler:

One thing, too, just going back to one of the questions that we were talking about earlier as far as how can you support students of color wishing to pursue a career in behavioral health or counseling-related degree, I think a lot of what your program does as far as the mentoring and the information sharing and helping to be a guide to other students is something that counselors can listen in on and perhaps try to replicate in terms of how you might be supporting other students and students of color as well.

Christa Butler:

So speaking of the mission and the work that you do with HBCU C.A.R.E.S., the mission is to raise awareness and to offer access to behavioral health fields of diverse students. So what are some of the suggestions that you have for counselors on how they can help to further this mission and to advocate for students of color working towards earning their degree in counseling and related fields?

Leonissa Johnson:

I'm so excited about this question. I think there's a lot. I think some of it is, again, planting those seeds early. Practitioners sharing information about their work with young people I think can make a difference. We've done a lot with undergraduates, but we've also been questioned and challenged about going farther back, so talking even to students in K-12 settings about just these fields, this work, and the importance and the difference that it makes.

Leonissa Johnson:

And then I mentioned this before, but being a positive and engaged practitioner can also make a difference. Again, we don't know who's watching. So what we do and how we do it can absolutely make a difference and potentially open someone up to wanting to enter the field. Mentoring, both formal and informal, can be really powerful. So if counselors are willing to provide opportunities for shadowing, for interning, for informational interviews, just not taking for granted just what you know and how sharing even a part of your professional journey can make a difference for someone else.

Leonissa Johnson:

I would say that to counselors. I would also say it to students in counseling programs. There's a lot of information, a lot of cultural capital that you already have. And so being willing to share that, I think, is really, really helpful. And then if we have as a profession, again, additional ways and resources to make the processes plain for folks who may not be as familiar with counseling, so education requirements, licensure requirements, certification requirements, just all those things, having that information in places or spaces or as a professional knowing where to direct folks to access the information, such as ACA, I think will be really, really important.

Leonissa Johnson:

And then this last one, this is my counselor educator hat and also HBCU C.A.R.E.S. hat. But since we're talking to counselors, if they're able to offer counseling services at no cost or low cost or reduced rates for counseling students in their communities, I think that could be really powerful. We talk about folks seeking out the support they can get, and so there are some institutions that have a wealth of resources as far as community mental health goes, but then there are other universities that don't.

Leonissa Johnson:

So I think a way to provide support to future counselors could possibly be to providing them some services while they're in their process or they're trying to juggle and get to the finish line. Having some affordable counseling services could be really, really powerful.

Danielle Irving:

I would absolutely agree with that because that's something that often comes up for not just those that are interested in the profession as persons of color, but also first-time generation students that are looking to pursue a degree in counseling or any other degree. So there's a lot of different concerns and issues that come up with being that first timer or first generation where you're exploring navigating new terrain.

Danielle Irving:

There's the pressure, the stress that comes from family, and then also financial hardships that can be encountered. So that's definitely something that has come up within the career center at ACA, just exploring and navigating those different things. The more resources that are available to them, whether within the school or outside of the school, that is helpful to that specific population and beyond. So I definitely agree with that. Thank you for sharing that.

Leonissa Johnson:

Thank you.

Christa Butler:

Dr. Johnson, this has been a great episode. We've learned so much about HBCU C.A.R.E.S. and ways that we can support students of color and mentor and provide resources of information to students as well. Before we finish up, I just wanted to ask you, could you just share with us how can anyone tuning in wishing to learn more about you or to learn more about HBCU C.A.R.E.S., how can they find you?

Leonissa Johnson:

Sure. So I'll send folks to our website, which is www.myhbcucares.org. If you go there, you can find our contact information. You can also find resources. You can join our newsletter to get information. Also, we have a YouTube channel, and we also have an Instagram that the folks on our team work really hard to create really great content, along with our ambassadors as well. So that's sort of the one-stop shop. You can find all of our information and additional resources and, hopefully, supports there.

Leonissa Johnson:

Our tagline is that we're creating a community of care. So we'd love for all of you to help us in that effort, and appreciate this opportunity so much.

Christa Butler:

Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Johnson. This has been a great episode. We appreciate everything that you've shared with us today.

Leonissa Johnson:

Thank you.

Christa Butler:

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Speaker 4:

ACA provides these podcasts solely for informational and educational purposes. Opinions expressed in these podcasts do not necessarily reflect the view of ACA. ACA is not responsible for the consequences of any decisions or actions taken in reliance upon or as a result of the information and resources provided in this program. This program is copyright 2023 by the American Counseling Association. All rights reserved.