The Role of Leadership in Counseling

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Welcome to the Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association. I'm Dr. Aprille Woodson, and joining me today is Dr. Jeff Parsons, who is here to talk about the role of leadership and ethics in counseling.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Dr. Jeff Parsons is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor Supervisor in Kentucky and a National Certified Counselor through the National Board of Certified Counselors. He is a professor of counseling at Lindsey Wilson College and beyond Lindsey Wilson, Dr. Parsons has served as the Kentucky Association for Counselor Education and Supervision Secretary, and as an editor for the Kentucky Counseling Association Journal.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Dr. Parsons served as board chair for the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs, CACREP, from 2015 to 2017. Dr. Parsons also served as vice chair of the Kentucky Board of Licensed Professional Counselors, chair of the Product Development Committee for the Association for Counselor Education and Supervision, and a member of CACREP External Training Committee.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Welcome Dr. Parsons to this ethics podcast on the role of leadership and counseling.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Oh, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Well, thank you. You have an awesome resume and you're the perfect person to talk about leadership and ethics. And I want to start out by just asking you a question on what I often hear. Some say leaders are born and others say leadership is a learned experience. What is your opinion on this statement, and what do you think about the traits of leaders? What are they? Are they born, and if so, what do those skills look like?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

The answer is yes. So yeah, I think it is a combination of kind of nature and nurture and it's really hard to know how much of each is involved. I've thought a lot about that question over the years and really I think it comes down to maybe two or three different things that might be innate, if you will.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think natural intelligence is something that the research is going to support is pretty static over time and probably grounded in nature. I think our personalities and to a degree, the amount of charisma that we have with other people is also something that if we're not born with it, we develop that very, very early on in life and it's hard to change that over time. And the last thing that I think might be nature-based, and I don't have the research to support this, but just based on my own observations, would be the amount of confidence that people take at various tasks and their willingness to risk take.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Now on the learning end, I think there's a lot. I don't want to imply by the way that we can't shift things about our personality or risk taking strategies or anything like that, but there are definite skills related to leadership. Obviously, job content is a big area. I was bowled over in various leadership roles that I've been in, at the skills that were required that I had never been trained on. Things like accreditation and program evaluation, even things like more advanced uses of spreadsheets can come in very handy in various leadership roles, and yet we don't often talk about those things in our academic training, at least we didn't when I was coming through the ranks.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think we can develop a good sense of personal integrity. I think that we can develop a non-reactive stance to criticism. I think obviously we can develop our listening skills. I think we can develop systems to help us stay organized and plan. I think we can be intentional about being dependable, and maybe most importantly that we can be intentional about developing a sense of attending to the needs of other people. So I think there are a lot of things that we can learn or develop and then a few base things that are maybe a little bit harder to shift.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Well, I'm glad you talked about the skills because you're right, you don't often see that in our training. And I want to ask you, what does leadership look like in counseling when we're specifically looking at the profession?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Well, it looks like a lot of different things. There are many opportunities for leadership in counseling, far more than I ever anticipated when I was a student. Obviously, there are leadership opportunities in the professional counseling organizations such as ACA, its divisions and regions and branches, NBCC, CACREP, Kai Sigma; that list is very, very lengthy and the level of involvement that you can get involved and you can participate in those processes is pretty extensive.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Beyond that, you have things like licensing boards where you can take on leadership roles. You have academic settings where various people might end up in a role as a program coordinator or a department chair or a dean. You have editorial boards, you have agencies and hospitals. Even lobbying efforts can involve some level of leadership involvement. So there are many, many, many, many opportunities for leadership within our field.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

One thing that I've noticed that I think is a little bit of a challenge is that sometimes people will opt out of those opportunities because they don't think they're qualified. And I don't mean that they're not qualified on paper, but even though they meet the qualifications, maybe they just are nervous that, "Well, I won't get that position if I apply. There are better people."

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

So I think given all of the different opportunities that are out there in our field for service, that having a willingness to serve is just really critical and a willingness to kind of throw your hat in the ring and to try new things. There are just so many great opportunities out there that people pass up on because they think somebody else can do it better. I think if you've been around the field any amount of time at all, you'll know how desperately the professional counseling organizations need good people to step up into those leadership roles.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

And I'm glad you've identified that because there are so many people who can step in the role, but if it's just a lack of confidence or concerned about their ability to do the job, you've cleared that up. They can really do this because they are qualified. They just need to step into that role. So thank you for identifying that.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

I want to talk about some of the CACREP institutions when it comes to leadership. Some of these institutions do not teach leadership courses as a requirement for their program. So how do we promote leadership development within counseling education and the counseling profession?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

That is a wonderful question, and you're absolutely right. There are a lot of programs that integrate leadership into other courses, but often that integration is relatively minor or it focuses almost exclusively on advocacy without looking at actual leadership skills in some of the other areas. It's a difficult issue to address. I will say that I've noticed an increase over time in programs that have explicit leadership training, which I think is a benefit.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

One of the barriers is probably that most of us never received any formal leadership training ourselves. And so if you're in counselor education and you haven't had those opportunities, it's really difficult to conceptualize, "Well, how are we going to address this issue in our classes?" I do think there is coursework that students can benefit from greatly and certainly programs might be able to adopt in; coursework in academic leadership can be very valuable.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Most new faculty don't understand academic structures. They don't understand governance processes within academics. There's a whole world there that can be very intimidating if you're graduating out of a doctoral program and becoming faculty; providing some training in that. Training around professional leadership, including orienting students to the different professional organizations, and really helping them to catch a vision for engaging in that.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

And then just looking at practical things like leadership theory, like developing a personal leadership style the same way that you would a teaching philosophy or a supervision philosophy. You really should be thinking about, "Well, what is my leadership philosophy, and what am I going to do with that?" And then finally, my personal pet peeve is we need more training on evaluation and accreditation. Those are becoming bigger and bigger pieces, particularly in counselor education.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

And again, many times many of us never received any training. I certainly never had any training in those areas prior to graduation. So I think talking about these issues, looking at what other programs are doing and then thinking critically about maybe what we didn't get in our own training that we can value-add into our programs to help better prepare our students.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

This is a good opportunity to just look at mentoring and I want to ask you about that. Are there any mentoring programs or opportunities that support leadership development?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

There are. There are quite a few, and it really depends on what level you're talking about. If you're talking about student level then there are lots of opportunities through Kai Sigma and NBCC and ACA. There are also leadership training or mentoring opportunities through those same professional organizations that you can look at.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

They don't get as much visibility as I wish they did. Sometimes those mentoring programs struggle with participation because people will say, "Oh, that looks like a great opportunity," but then they get busy and it gets back burned. So really leveraging those mentoring programs that are offered by the professional organizations or the counseling professional organizations, I think is pretty critical.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Beyond that, especially if you're in academics, there are some great training institutes on leadership that you can pursue that are maybe outside of the venue of counseling, but offer some great insight into the mechanics of leadership and some of the skills that you might want to acquire.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Thank you for sharing that. This is great information because I think we don't talk about leadership enough in this field, and I think that students and counselors and other professionals in counseling will find this very helpful. As we look at leadership expanding, diversity and inclusion has been a topic that has been at the forefront over the last year, and it's often a concern when it comes to leadership positions.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Minorities and women have faced obstacles in this area. What are some things leaders in the counseling profession can do to support diversity in leadership?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think there are many different things that we can do, but it does require us to be intentional about helping to stage people into leadership roles. My experience and in talking with other people who have had leadership roles, particularly in education, is that often people are thrown into those leadership roles without adequate preparation, and it's very much kind of on the job training.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think the professional organizations in counseling do a little bit better of a job and trying to stage some of that. But I think the first thing that you can do if you're working in a leadership position is to really have open conversations with your team about their interests. Talk to them about what they envision themselves doing in the future, explore what they're passionate about. And it may be that they're passionate about moving up in an academic setting or in a professional setting or in an agency setting.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

There are many, many options as we've already talked about, but just really figuring out where they're oriented toward and then trying to provide support and resources for that. We've already talked about mentoring programs. I think taking advantage of those can be a huge bonus. The other thing that I really think that leaders can do to support people is to make sure that you are providing your own training opportunities. Now, these might be formal mentoring programs. It could be providing funding to make sure people can get to different training opportunities, but maybe the biggest thing that leaders can do is to lead in such a way that strongly encourages people to participate and engage and develop their own leadership style.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I'll give you a brief example. When I was directing the counselor education program at Lindsey Wilson College, we had a team of about eight faculty, and it was a great program, wonderful experience, but one of the things that I really tried to do is to think intentionally about the kinds of work that was involved in running the program and then decentralize that by forming committees to oversee those areas.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

For example, having a teaching committee to oversee teaching opportunities for students. So this was a committee that coordinated with our other programs and figured out a workflow for pairing students with faculty. We had another committee for our internship and field experiences. We had another committee for curricular development kinds of things. So even though we were a relatively small group, we were able to create leadership opportunities by identifying people that would share these various committees and take real ownership in the processes and functionality of the program. And as they did that, you could really see those leadership qualities emerge and develop.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

We already identified a lot of people are hesitant to jump into leadership. Sometimes by giving them ownership over things you're already doing, you can help them to feel more invested in that. So I think those are all things that you can do to support not only diversity, but every individual in your organization may have something to offer.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

And I'm glad you talked about all of those opportunities and committees that you created. It sounds awesome and it's a great template for other organizations and other schools to follow if they are not doing it already. You said some people are hesitant to step into leadership. Besides feeling like they are not qualified or maybe workload, are there any other reasons why people would be hesitant that you can think of?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Well, I think you've identified the two big ones. Workload can be a problem and it can be a real challenge, especially for new faculty if you're at a tenured institution.If you're trying to meet all of the research requirements of your institution, taking on additional tasks actually might not be a good idea. But beyond workload, I think that confidence comes to play largely. I can't count the number of times I've invited somebody into a process or a leadership opportunity only to have them comment later, "Well, I didn't think that I was really qualified for that. I'm glad you invited me."

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

So sometimes extending a hand to somebody and identifying, "Hey, I really think you have a lot to offer. Would you be willing to step up?" Now, you might have situations where some faculty doesn't want those opportunities, and they'll certainly tell you if that's the case, but being proactive I think is the best thing that you can do to help in those cases.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Now, you may also have some skill deficits, and those are often things that can be trained and mentored, but the biggest advice I would give anybody is don't put yourself in a box. Don't limit yourself before you even try because that happens way too often in our field where people just opt out and you end up with the same people circling through various leadership roles because they're the ones kind of willing to put themselves out there.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Great advice. I cannot say enough about that because so many people do feel... They see others all the time in the same people in the same positions, and then they think, "I'm just not qualified. Maybe I just don't step forward."

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

So I'm glad you said that because I think that's really important. As we talk about leadership, I want to shift a little bit and talk about leadership and ethics. Ethics is really, really important to this profession, and I want to talk about what does ethics look like for counselor leaders?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

That's a really hard question. So there are a couple of pieces to it. I think the ACA code of ethics does a great job of covering some fundamental aspects of that, especially in sections D and F of the code; talking about professional obligations to other professionals, talking about supervision, talking about maintaining a proper boundaries in terms of our relationship with others, managing impairment.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

There are many elements of leadership that are touched on in the code. Those are just by the nature of what the code of ethics is a kind of mandatory code; they are the bare minimums for what we're expected to do. And I think where the code... I'm not going to say it falls short because it can't go where I think a lot of people would hope it would go, and that's toward the more aspirational aspect of leadership. We've all heard stories of troubled organizations with unhappy people with poor leadership, and many times the poor leadership that is being demonstrated isn't actionable by a code of ethics and can't be dictated by a code of ethics because they're aspirational.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

And yet through the kinds of things that I would hope we would be training professionals to aspire toward as they're moving through their programs. I'll give you just a couple of examples of things that I've thought about a lot that I think are kind of critical to the leadership role, but also by the nature of what they are, are not the kind of thing you can put into a code of ethics.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

The first one would be developing a healthy organizational culture. This doesn't get talked about enough. Where we do talk about it tends to be because it's unhealthy. So we hear lots of conversations about unhealthy mental health agencies or academic departments and these kinds of things. But I think good leadership, good ethical leadership involves emphasizing building a culture that is healthy, that allows people to feel safe and included, that is both mission and performance driven, but also people driven.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

That is a hard thing to train toward, but absolutely necessary for healthy organizations if they're going to move forward successfully. I think you've got to have a willingness to put the needs of your team and your organization above your own. You don't ever want to be in a situation where you're in a leadership role because it fills a slot on your resume. You want to be there out of a sense of service for other people so that you're not asking them to do things you wouldn't be willing to do yourself or in a worst case scenario, sacrificing their needs to meet your needs as a leader. I think good leadership also includes a high level of transparency. There has to be a willingness to communicate openly with people, not to put information in boxes unless it has to be in a box for confidentiality reasons.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

It helps people to feel included. It helps them to feel safe, like there aren't secrets floating around out there. I've noted over the years that in a situation where people don't have adequate information about an issue, if it's of concern to them, they will invent information about the situation, they'll make up their own narrative, and it can be just devastating to an organization when you don't have a good flow of information, both directions, about important issues in the organization.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Being open to accepting critical feedback without reacting or retaliating is an important skill. But again, probably not something we can codify in the code of ethics, but I think just so important that if you have people following you that they know that they can come to you and say, "Hey, Jeff, I really think you dropped the ball on this. I wish you had done this instead." And that you can hear that even if you don't agree with it and learn whatever there is to learn from that situation.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Let me think. A couple of other things that I'd love to see in the code that are unenforceable, emphasizing engagement and de-emphasizing competition. I think that competition piece can be really detrimental. And again, I'm thinking more from an academic perspective, but it's certainly in academic settings you find situations where a tenure in particular can encourage that kind of behavior and it can be very, very detrimental to everybody in the organization.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

But even sometimes in our professional organizations, we see some unhealthy competition where there ought to be cooperation. I think that element and getting everybody on the same team is an important part of effective leadership.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think the last piece that has been valuable to me in leadership roles I've held in the past is simply taking stock of my own strengths and limitations and then really leveraging the strengths of other people. If I've got people on my team who are better in areas than I am, and that is always the case, really reaching out to them and being open about, "Hey, this is not my area. I really could use some help here. Let me tell you what's going on." And kind of involving people in those areas where you know that they're going to bring something to the table that you just simply can't.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

This is all valuable information and I appreciate you discussing this even if it's not directly in the code of ethics, I think it's important for people to hear in this field because it just gives you something to work towards, a goal to work towards, and enhance yourself as a leader as well.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

I want to go in asking you... I have just a couple of more questions left. Can you tell me about a personal experience that illustrates a common ethical challenge for counselor leaders and how you approached it?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Sure. So I'm going to be general about this because... Well, I'm just going to be general about it. I think one of the areas that I've seen on occasion as a leadership challenge is when you have maybe leadership above you where there are troubling behaviors, whether it be a lack of ethical behavior, a toxic leadership style, there can be a lot of different things that contribute to that. Fortunately, I've been very blessed for the most part to work outside of that dynamic. But there have been a few times when there have been some very serious issues going on above my pay grade that were directly impacting my ability to lead in the organization I worked with.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think this is an area where the code of ethics is helpful because it does provide direction about reaching out, communicating to the individual in question if there is a challenge, try to be specific and honest while also being respectful in whatever those concerns are, and trying to find a resolution where you can.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

If you're in a situation where there are real serious ethical concerns that aren't getting resolved, and I've seen this not only in my own life, but I've seen this with students and other professionals working in community mental health, for example. Maybe they're working in a setting where there's a policy in place at their agency that's unethical or damaging to clients or even in a couple of cases illegal, then you've got much harder choices to make because yes, you can address the issue with your organization, you can address the issue with your leader, but you may not get a satisfactory outcome, and you really have to count the cost about how far you want to take that.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

And I do know people who have quit jobs and stepped away because there were illegal or highly unethical things going on that were not going to get resolved. And so I think it's not super common, but it is common enough for people in leadership roles to sometimes face those situations. The only advice I could really give is to really count the cost and think about making sure that you've got good information, checking yourself to make sure your perspective is accurate in terms of the concerns, addressing them directly, and then really making a decision if you can't get resolution about what you want to do about that situation.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. As we begin to wrap up, I have one last question for you. What advice would you give a new counselor or any counselor who is interested in taking on a leadership role in counseling?

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I would say be willing to take risks and expect to fail a lot. By fail, what I mean is to throw your hat in the ring and not get picked. Keep throwing the hat and eventually things will happen for you, so don't be discouraged if you reach out and you try to get into a leadership opportunity and it doesn't work out the first time; we've all been there. The idea is to just keep trying and keep engaging. I could give you lots of examples of students that I've known, for example, and new professionals who have gone all in and had amazing experiences because of their willingness to face rejection and be okay with that rejection when it occurs, learn from that, and then try again.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

A couple of other things that I think are very, very helpful; when we're going to professional conferences, for example, use those real networking opportunities.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

I think an error that some students make is to spend all their time in the sessions and the sessions are valuable, they're helpful, but make sure you spend enough time outside of the sessions that you can meet people informally and introduce yourself to people and build that network of support that you might need. Along those lines, when you're going to those professional conferences, often different organizations will have sessions looking for volunteers, whether it be ACA or one of its divisions or regions. All the time you'll see these things posted, even in Kentucky. The Kentucky Mental Health Counseling Association every year offers an opportunity for people to come in and volunteer. So look for those opportunities because that's literally somebody opening the door and saying, "We would love for you to come on in and work with us and develop your leadership skills."

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Do that. Find what's interesting to you and pursue it. But you kind of have to look for those. Often people don't think about those when they're planning their schedules for their conferences. I really think it can be helpful.

Dr. Jeff Parsons:

Two last things. Think about the kind of leaders you admire and the kind that you haven't admired and really espouse to develop the qualities of the ones you did. Even if you're not "in a leadership position" right now, work on building those qualities, those skills that you think you might need, be the kind of leader that you wish you had. And as you do that, those opportunities will more naturally come to you. The last thing is a real simple one, and it will absolutely guarantee get you into leadership roles. Just take an attitude of serving other people. It's really that simple. Just look for places where you can be helpful. Look for situations where there are needs, and you will pretty readily find yourself in leadership roles even if you were not looking for them.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

This is great advice. Thank you so much for sharing this. This is very valuable information, and I think when new opportunities come along for counselors and students, they will appreciate all that you've shared with us today.

Dr. Aprille Woodson:

Dr. Parsons, thank you for joining ACA's podcast series. I want to thank our listening audience as well. We hope you enjoyed this episode on leadership and ethics, and we look forward to bringing you more content like this that will help you make knowledge informed decisions. Have a great day everyone.

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