Hello, and welcome to The Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association. I'm Emily St. Amant, and joining me today is Avery Neal, who is here to talk about the dynamics of subtle psychological abuse. This is a special episode for Domestic Violence prevention month.
We do want our listeners to know that today's episode is focused on various aspects of intimate partner abuse, and some may find the content of this episode distressing. If you or a loved one are experiencing abuse, you can find resources and support at the National Domestic Violence Hotline by calling 1-800-799-7233. You can also text "START" to 8878, or visit their website at thehotline.org for resources or even to chat live.
For more information about counseling survivors of trauma, check out the ACA book, Introduction to Crisis and Trauma Counseling edited by Thelma Duffey and Shane Haberstroh, which can be found on our website at counseling.org in the publication section.
Our guest Avery Neal is a practicing psychotherapist, international author and speaker. In 2012, she opened the Women's Therapy Clinic which offers psychiatric and counseling support to women. Avery is the author of, If He's So Great, Why Do I Feel So Bad? Recognizing and Overcoming Subtle Abuse, which has been translated and published in 12 languages.
Her articles and interviews have been published by oprah.com, DailyOM, Best Self Magazine, Hitched Magazine, Bustle and POPSUGAR. Her courses have also been taken by over 17,000 people worldwide. We are so lucky to have her join us today.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Avery, for a conversation about this really, really important topic. How are you doing?
Thank you. I'm very well, thank you for having me.
Thanks so much. To hop into it here, what are some of the biggest misconceptions or myths that maybe people believe about intimate partner abuse?
Sure. This is a great question because there are so many misconceptions. The first one that I think is really important to address is that abuse is just physical. I think that that's a misconception that's getting better over time, but that one is still out there and important to acknowledge. There are multiple forms of abuse. Psychological abuse exists in an abusive relationship whether there's physical abuse or not. I think that that one is really important.
I think also another misconception that is out there is that abuse is something that occurs only in economically disadvantaged populations and in certain cultures. And that one is also a myth. That's a common misconception. Abuse can occur in any culture. It can occur in any population, any demographic and it's something that can happen regardless of someone's socioeconomic status. It's prevalent across the board. And so I think that's something else that people need to really be aware of.
Abuse is not always obvious. In fact, psychological abuse is extremely hard to spot to an outsider especially. It's even hard to spot when you're in the relationship if the overt abusive tactics are not happening, so that's another one. Abuse is often not so easy to see.
Another thing and common misconception is that abuse only occurs within families or if somebody's experienced abuse in childhood, that they're just going back to it. That is certainly not the case. There are plenty of people who sadly go back into an abusive dynamic if that's what they've been exposed to and that's what they're used to, but there are plenty of people who have had healthy backgrounds that actually unknowingly end up in an abusive dynamic because it happens very gradually and over time.
And that's another thing that people need to know is that abuse is very gradual. And so for a long time, a person may not know that what they're experiencing is unhealthy, but the abuse just continues to escalate. As the commitment becomes greater and greater, it becomes harder and harder to leave the relationship.
And then another one that I think is very, very important to acknowledge is that a lot of people think that physical abuse is more harmful and more damaging than psychological abuse, but we actually know through research and through many victims of abuse, through their testimonials and stories that it's the psychological abuse and that aspect that's actually the most difficult to recover from even if there has been physical abuse or there has not been physical abuse, that's the piece that's very, very hard on victims.
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of those misconceptions are very common and they can be very harmful because I think a lot of people think, "Maybe this can't happen to me." And like you said, that they don't really realize what's going on because they're not being physically abused. I think it's so important for people to understand that. I've heard people use the expression of a frog in boiling water. I know that's really a terrible way to describe it, but a lot of people don't, there are no red flags at the beginning perhaps.
That's it. This is something that if somebody shows their true colors in the very beginning you probably wouldn't continue to go out with them. Typically, these relationships actually start out very exciting. There's a lot of engagement. Often an abusive personality is very charismatic in the beginning and is very good at pulling you in, so to speak. This is very captivating. It feels really good. There's usually a lot of attention that's showered over you and that feels good to most people to have someone who seems so into us, and so interested, and engaged, and committed, and so on and so forth. But the problem is that the relationship then changes over time the more committed you become.
I think that you described something a lot of people describe it as love bombing, or one of those honeymoon phases of the cycle of abuse, right?
Can you tell us how that plays out over time with that in particular?
Absolutely. That really starts out in the beginning of the relationship like we were just talking about where everything is pretty spectacular and you feel just showered with this love affection. The person seems to just be completely adoring and loving of you, almost to the point where it can... If you're paying attention to it, sometimes it can even be a little bit obsessive with a lot of calls, a lot of text, sort of constant communication. And that actually can be one of the early warning signs to pay attention to. That's the way it can present in the beginning. Sometimes this is hard to see because in most relationships in the beginning, there's a lot of this, and it's just characteristic of a new relationship. Sometimes it's not that easy to see some of these attributes as warning signs.
What happens over time though in the relationship and what you're mentioning is of the abusive cycle, where after there's an overtly abusive episode, or even an episode where there's been some mistreatment, typically there's a honeymoon phase after that where the person who's been abusive is very remorseful, penitent, promises not to behave that way again, showers their partner with affection. It feels very, very good, much like it did in the beginning.
That really keeps the partner of the person that's abusing hooked into the relationship to where they feel connected again. They feel like, "Okay, I've got my person back. They understand how I'm feeling. They feel really bad and terrible about what's happened." And so you recommit yourself to the relationship a little bit.
Right. I think another one that's missed is, if someone treated me like that, I would never stay, or maybe not understanding why people stay in a relationship thinking it has to do with maybe low self-worth, when in reality it's not that simple.
Exactly. Yes, and I'm glad you're bringing this up. There are so many misconceptions about why people stay. And in fact, this is something that's so important, I think as therapists to be aware of too. If we don't know about abusive relationships, and we don't know the dynamics and why victims of abuse stay, we can actually cause more harm to our clients than we realize. There are a number of reasons that people will stay in an abusive dynamic. Of course, low self-esteem is one and that's going to be particularly the case if someone has come from an abusive background, but that is not always the case at all.
There are plenty of people with great self-esteem, who have a lot of confidence going into the relationship, but that gets diminished over time because someone that's psychologically abusive is very, very good at making you question and doubt yourself over time. They're very masterful at making you feel self-conscious, or self-critical of the things that you already perceive as flaws or deficiencies within yourself. They pick on the things that are already your insecurities. What happens is, over time you become less and less confident and you start to wonder if maybe you're the issue in the relationship. That's another reason that people will stay.
Other factors include if you have children and worrying about the children. A lot of people worry that if they leave the relationship and the children are alone with the abuser, that it's going to be worse for the children. And if they stay, they can protect their children from the abuse. This is actually counter to what a lot of people believe which is if you're in an abusive relationship, you've got to get out. Why wouldn't you get out? You have children, don't let them see this. But for victims of abuse, they actually feel often like they can protect their children better if they stay in. That's something that's really important for people to know.
And then of course there are other factors, if someone hasn't worked and they're financially dependent on the abuser, that's another consideration. Often abusers again, are very charismatic. And so in the community, they seem like very good people who are willing to do for others and put themselves out there for others and seem great to everyone else. So a lot of victims of abuse think, "Well, nobody's going to believe me that this is happening. Everybody's going to think I'm going to be crazy for leaving and they're not going to have any support."
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of your work focuses on educating people about the more subtle aspects of abuse. Because like you mentioned, if people have that reputation or if they doubt themselves, it's hard to spot for themselves. But then they get to explain it to someone else, then it might be just like, "Well, this is one isolated incident that doesn't sound that bad to me."
Can you talk to us more about what led you to focus so much on those more subtle, insidious aspects of abuse?
Yes, absolutely. Insidious is the perfect word because that's exactly what it is. What led me to research this further, I experienced my own psychologically abusive relationship. It was something that was very confusing to me and I couldn't figure out what was what. I did everything that I could to try to find resources and figure out what was happening. I did end up finding a lot of great resources out there, largely centered around abusive dynamics that were more physically abusive dynamics.
But I started to read about that and just understand a little bit more about abuse in general. It was very hard for me to accept the term, abuse, as it is for most people. If you haven't been physically abused, especially that word just feels extremely big. That's why I'm a big fan of thinking of it as bullying, or calling it bullying for a while until people get comfortable, because abuse is just such a charged word.
Anyway, I just started learning as much as I could. But what I found was there wasn't a lot of information on psychological abuse alone. And so over the years, I became more aware of my own experiences and looking back. And then I started to listen to my client's stories and listening for patterns. There were just certain patterns that became very clear to me that were more about the psychological abuse, or the psychological aspect of the abuse that I found really interesting. As I started to explore that more, and write these patterns down, that's what led to this body of work.
The reason why the subtle aspects of psychological abuse are so interesting to me and so important to me are because that is how the abuse gains traction. That's how it begins. That's what keeps victims of abuse in the relationship. That's what haunts victims of abuse after they've left the relationship. It's the stuff that we can't see. It's the stuff that's not quite so tangible that we start to say, "Well, was that me? Or am I just not remembering this correctly? Or maybe I did say that in a certain way that came across wrong, or maybe it was my fault, or maybe if I just did this more, or that more, this person would treat me the way they did at the beginning of the relationship."
It's those more subtle covert aspects of the relationship that really keep people from discerning what's what.
When it comes to some of those signs in particular, maybe the people, their family miss, or even counselors, therapists when they're working with clients in therapy, or maybe even students, if they're a school counselor, what are some of those subtle signs that are maybe easy to miss or maybe the most overlooked?
Yes. This is another great question because it is so hard to spot psychological abuse, especially because victims of psychological abuse often don't know they're being abused. This becomes particularly tricky, especially for therapists who are working with couples. There are some things that we'll talk about, or we can talk about that are important to be aware of. But as far as things to be looking for, paying attention to the person's social support system. How isolated is the person? Do they have a strong support system and did that support system change once they got into their relationship?
If that person was once very close to their family and they've now really cut off contact, or they don't have as much engagement with their family, and that started around the time of the relationship or as the relationship became more serious, that's a big red flag. Also, paying attention to, is the person engaging with the friends that they have had for a long time? Or is the support system largely around their partner and their partner's friends and family? That's often a helpful question to ask. And does that person engage with outside support? Because in an abusive relationship, usually victims become more and more isolated over time, so that's one.
Another one to be paying attention to is, does this person have a chronic illness, depression, anxiety, PTSD, IBS, even migraines? There are certain things that we need to be paying attention to if somebody presents with those symptoms. And obviously there are many reasons that they can have those symptoms, or be suffering from those things that are not related to abuse or psychological abuse. However, a lot of times victims of psychological abuse will present with some of these symptoms and some of these disorders, even various addictions because of their relationship. It's something that often gets missed, but it is one to pay attention to.
The other thing that I think is really, really important is how the person feels in their relationship. Sometimes it's very difficult to spot these things because they're not necessarily tangible and especially if the person you're working with doesn't come out and identify it themselves. But I think to really narrow down and ask about how the person feels when they're around their partner, how they feel in their body and how they feel toward their partner, and the relationship, that actually gives very accurate information.
I think a lot of the impact that the abuse has on someone like you said, can look like so many different things and maybe people start counseling, or therapy because of those things. I think it's not really easy for a therapist doesn't know to dig a little deeper, to look here or there, to ask these very specific questions. They may have no idea that there's something else going on.
Can you talk a little bit more, I know you touched on that a little bit already, but why it's so important for us to know those signs. What's the potential outcome if someone doesn't know, to pick up on those signs?
Sure. Well, so it is so important to pick up on these signs because psychological abuse actually has a very strong relationship with mental health issues. We were just talking about that a moment ago. And so the results of the mental health issues can have very damaging consequences over the person's lifetime. It is very important that it's identified and it's addressed because psychological abuse is extremely traumatic and so it has to be treated as such.
If someone misses those signs or if the abuse continues, of course the abuse escalates over time. If somebody doesn't get help earlier on in the relationship, the abuse is only likely to escalate. As the person becomes increasingly committed, and the abuser sees that they will tolerate that level of mistreatment, then the abuser often will then increase the mistreatment as time goes on. That puts the person at further psychological risk as well as physical harm, so that's an important thing. It also puts them at greater risk for these other mental health conditions and certainly low self-esteem, low self-worth, suicide, depression, anxiety, addiction, PTSD, all of these things are very real issues.
And then I would say that the other thing is that a lot of times, if especially, and this is where it gets tricky as a therapist if you're working with couples, but what can happen with the therapeutic process is abusers are very manipulative and they are very convincing. And so if a therapist isn't trained in what to look out for, it's very easy for the therapist to become manipulated and then the abuser can actually use therapy as a vehicle to abuse their partner further. This unfortunately is more common than you would think.
An abuser may twist things around to where they're projecting all of the things that they are actually doing in the relationship onto their partner, or they seem like the loving, concerned party where their partner may be expressing more anger and frustration. It can look like things are one way when in fact the reality is something very different. I think it's always good too to find out how things are going at home outside of the therapeutic setting. Because a lot of times someone that's abusive will actually take information that was gained in the therapeutic setting and hold it over their partner's head behind closed doors, or use it against their partner behind closed doors.
It's really important for us all to be aware of these things and to be very mindful, and to know the best practices, and how to actually support people that are experiencing these things, and to support them in ways that are going to actually help and not hurt, because that's what our ethics say that we need to do.
How are some of those things where people... Ways to support your clients or ways to educate yourself to learn more, I know you do a lot of research on this.
I do. Thank you. Yes. I do a lot of research on this and this is something that actually even in the academic literature, there's not a whole lot out there. There's a little bit more that's starting to come to the surface, but there are a variety of reasons why psychological abuse just hasn't been widely studied like it should. This is something that it's not that easy as a therapist to be able to find good, accurate information on how to intervene with psychological abuse specifically, and even physical abuse. There just isn't that much information available and most therapists aren't trained in how to intervene.
I would say the first thing that's so important for therapists primarily so that then they can educate their clients, that is, it's education. It's knowing the warning signs and the dynamics to be aware of if you're working with couples or if you have a client that's coming in, that's presenting in certain ways. The more educated therapists are, the more they can educate their clients. That's key for clients to become aware of what abuse looks like, what it feels like, what's considered abuse, what's not, what's likely to improve and get better and what's not.
Because even if the client decides to stay in the relationship, which many do, it will help them to distance themselves emotionally from the abuse and the relationship if they begin to understand that it's not their fault, that they're not causing the abuse, that this is beyond them and these are just of classic patterns in an abusive relationship, which if the client can begin to understand that, or the person can begin to understand that, then they can actually start to gain some of their self-esteem and confidence back.
I think that that's super important to know that knowledge is power. We've talked about a lot of heavy things today, but I know that in your work and your experience, you've experienced it yourself, getting to the other side.
Can you talk about, can we can end with a message of hope for people that are in a relationship like this, or maybe they're working with clients who are, and maybe they're a little frustrated or their heartbreaks for them. Can you share a little bit more about what's the hope for the other side?
Yes, absolutely. This ties into the last piece, and that is that, one of the best things to do for victims of abuse is to help with the trauma aspect. There are so many amazing, wonderful ways that therapists can support their clients when it comes to trauma responses and interventions. I think that that's something to really keep in mind that there's absolutely hope. One of the beautiful things about humans is we have the capacity to heal. When we've been through any kind of trauma, I think it almost deepens our ability to heal and grow.
I've seen that across the board with victims of abuse that as they begin to find themselves again, and develop their confidence, and self-esteem, and self-worth, and as they become more proactive in their own lives, and begin to create and foster lives that they really want, that's really theirs, it's just an incredible thing to see. It's very moving and filled with hope.
Yeah. I think I've heard that called post traumatic growth.
We want to instill that hope for our listeners, if you are experiencing it or if you're working with it, that change is always possible.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Avery. Can you tell our listeners how to find you, what resources you offer?
Sure. Thank you so much for having me. And yes, you can find me at averyneal.com. It's A-V-E-R-Y N-E-A-L.com. I have a list of resources. I have some courses and a book, and some workshops that are going on, that you're welcome to look at and hopefully you'll find them helpful.
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Avery.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Thank you again to Avery and thank you for listening to some very important information. We really do thank you for taking the time to learn more about this really, really important topic.
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