Counseling Compact FAQs

Christa Butler:

Welcome to The Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association. I'm Christa Butler, co-hosting with Emily St. Amant. Joining us today is Dr. Lynn Linde, who is here to talk about the Counseling Compact, the progress that has been made with the compact, what does the compact mean for counselors, and how to support the compact in your state. Dr. Linde is the executive director of the Center for Counseling Practice, Policy, and Research at the American Counseling Association. Dr. Linde is a graduate of the George Washington University and holds a doctorate in counseling and an MA in guidance and counseling.

Lynn came to ACA from Loyola University, Maryland, where she was the director of clinical experiences for the school counseling program. Prior to Loyola, she was the chief of student services and alternative programs branch at the Maryland State Department of Education, a local school system school counselor supervisor and a school counselor. She has held a number of leadership positions in ACA and was the 58th president of the association. She has written and presented extensively with a focus on ethical and legal issues for counselors and is a True Colors facilitator.

Her work in counseling has been recognized through a number of awards from ACA, the State of Maryland, and other organizations, and she is an ACA fellow. Dr. Linde, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Oh my pleasure. I'm delighted to be here.

Christa Butler:

We'll hop right in. Could you start by sharing with us what is the Counseling Compact?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Of course. The Counseling Compact is a legislative solution that will allow counselors to practice across states. It does four basic things. It allows counselors to obtain a privilege to practice in a state where they don't physically live. It allows the practice of telehealth, regardless of what the state requirements are. It allows counselors who move from one compact state to another, an expedited process for obtaining a new license. It allows military spouses for the period of time where the spouse is in active or reserve status to practice on a home state license without ever obtaining a new license.

Christa Butler:

Thank you so much for sharing that. A question that often comes up with the Counseling Compact is, what will be the additional requirements if a counselor were to live in a state that has enacted the interstate Counseling Compact?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Everything is based on the counselor's home state license. Home state is defined as where the counselor legally resides. Normally I say, where does the IRS find you? That is considered your legal residence. You have to have a license in good standing. You can't have had any sanctions against your license for at least two years. You have to be able to practice independently. The only people who can participate are counselors who are licensed at the highest level within their state. They also have to undergo an FBI background check. All of that information is put in a database.

And then when people want to apply for a privilege to practice in another compact state, they simply ask for that privilege and go through that process. They don't have to resubmit any of the original documentation. No tracking down supervisors who've been retired for 10 years. No resubmitting transcripts at whatever universities charge for doing that. No filling out any additional numerous forms. It's all taken care of through a database.

Christa Butler:

I'm sure that comes out as a big relief for counselors who may have a license in multiple states. For those who are wishing to practice, if the state hasn't reenacted the legislations to be a member of the compact, they won't have to complete all of the paperwork that's usually required to have a license in that state.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Oh, it's going to save everybody so much time and effort and frustration. I mean, that's one of the wonderful things about compacts is that it's supposed to be expediting practice, not making it harder for counselors to practice in different states.

Christa Butler:

Absolutely. The other piece to it is the ability to serve more clients and how that's going to really serve the community of people in need of counseling services, having easier access to counselors.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Absolutely. It does two things really. It allows counselors to practice across state lines using telehealth. We know that clients are mobile. Counselors are mobile too, but clients are mobile. They move. They go on extended vacations. They temporarily go home to live with parents or other people for whom they need to provide care. All of the various things that happen that require counselors to live someplace else or to work with clients who are someplace else. This is going to make it so much easier to do that. It also expands services for underserved areas through telehealth.

That if I'm the only counselor who's practicing within 150 miles and I can't accommodate all of those folks who need help, it allows other people to provide those services. Or as one counselor said to me, "I'm the only counselor within 150 miles. If somebody in my family needs help, who do they go see?" It also provides assistance with all of those kinds of situations.

Emily St. Amant:

I think it offers a lot of solutions to a lot of problems that have been going on for a long time, which kind of makes us... I think a lot of people are curious how it got started, what were some of the previous solutions as far as reciprocity... We hear a lot about reciprocity or other types of ways to help people have easier ways to move around and stuff, but how was it decided upon that pursuing an Interstate Compact was the way to go?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Virginia was the first state to obtain licensure in 1976. When the second state obtained licensure, I think people began to think about the fact that there was a problem, because licensure is state specific and every state has done it differently. They have different requirements and they required that you be licensed in their state if you're working with anyone who is residing in that state. We've known for over 30 years that this was a problem. Probably for the last 20 or so years, everyone has tried to look at solutions. Emily, as you said, they've looked at reciprocity. Well, reciprocity is great, but it's not a permanent solution.

It's basically a gentle person's agreement. We agree as a licensing board to allow another state's counselors to practice in our state. But when personnel change, administrations change, laws change, that may no longer be a viable solution. Boards may decide, "Well, we don't want to allow your folks to practice in our state anymore because our requirements are so much harder than yours. We're concerned about whom you're licensing and whether they're appropriate." The other thing with some of these universal licensure laws or some of the agreements that have come about is, well, we'll allow anybody with a valid license in our state.

Well, that's great for people practicing in your state, but what about your counselors? What happens when they need to practice in another state? Those kinds of agreements don't help them at all. So all of the counseling organizations started looking at how are we going to fix this problem. A number of solutions were suggested and the organizations went in different directions. And then in the winter of 2018, a handful of us went to the conference, the annual conference for the American Association of State Counseling Boards. One of the presentations at that conference was made by Dan Logsdon, who is the director of the National Center for Interstate Compacts.

I remember sitting there thinking, "This is the answer to our problems. Why aren't we going in this direction?" My colleagues from ACA also felt that way. After that meeting, one of the other folks at ACA approached Dan and started talking about using the center to create a compact. And then in 2019, we signed the contract and began working with the center on implementing an Interstate Compact for counselor licensure.

Emily St. Amant:

Oh wow! The ACA has definitely played a key role in getting this started, getting this going. I think that you provided a great summary there, but there was so much more that went into it. I think people have no idea how many stakeholders came together and how many people worked really hard to make this happen.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Certainly now it's a very collaborative process. Everyone that was going in in different direction has come on board. We all agree that this is the wave of the future. We regulate to coordinate our efforts and to collaborate. The reality is it's the counselors in the states that are doing the hard work of getting these bills passed. While ACA certainly is paying for it, started is, is coordinating it, it's not an effort that's just us. It is a collaborative effort and requires everybody working together to get this done. I give everyone a lot of credit for their participation and their hard work.

Emily St. Amant:

Yeah, absolutely. It's because of that that we are where we are now. People showed up to meetings. People wrote letters. People got their community together. I think it's just incredible to see the counseling community come together on this. Where are we at now? People have put in a lot of effort and we've made a lot of progress. Where has that gotten us up to this point?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Well, I think we've made incredible progress. One of the things that I want to mention is this is probably the most important thing in the counseling profession since we got licensure. This is going to change the way everyone practices and what we can do and how we do it. This is really huge. Sometimes I sit back and I think about how important this is and how incredible it is. It took us 34 years before we had licensure in all the states. Within three years, we have 16, well, 17 states that have passed this legislation. In 16 states, it has become law. In the 17th state, it will become law as soon as the governor signs the bill.

When you think about the fact that all of this was done during a pandemic when we had to change everything that we had initially thought about doing. NCIC has a process that they go through. Every occupational compact goes through the same process. All of us had to just do a 180 when the pandemic hit, because we couldn't do in person meetings. We couldn't go do the kinds of legislative summits that we would normally do. Everything has been virtual. I think that we've made incredible progress in a very short period of time two.

Particularly when you think about 2021, two states came on board. 15 states this year. That's just remarkable. But as one of my colleagues from another association said to me, once you get 10 states, it really starts snowballing.

Emily St. Amant:

Yeah, and it's exciting to hear that we're almost at 17, which...

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Any day now.

Emily St. Amant:

Any day now. That's so exciting. That's so exciting.

Christa Butler:

It is absolutely exciting. You share with us that this is going to change so much in how we have typically gone about things as far as the licensure process. I'm curious, could you share with us what are some of those common misunderstandings about the Counseling Compact that you hear?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Well, the biggest thing is how it all works. There's a real lack of understanding. One of the things is, when the compact goes into effect, that counselors will be able to apply for a privilege to practice. A privilege means essentially the same thing as a license, but we don't call it a license because you're not starting from scratch. You're not doing all those things that I talked about before where you're submitting all of this documentation and waiting for the licensing board to make a decision. This is a much shorter process.

I don't know that we'll ever get where some of the other compacts are, but some of the other compacts, it's like a two or three day turnaround to get an answer to whether you've been granted that privilege and you're almost automatically granted a privilege if you meet the requirements. It's just incredible how quickly this can all happen for people. No more of the weeks to months to years waiting and filling out one more form. I think folks are confused about that. There are a lot of confusion as to who can participate. We try to make it very clear in everything that is written.

By we, I mean everybody, not just ACA, but everyone who participates, who's collaborating on this, tries to make it clear that it's for people who are practicing at the highest level. That it's not for post degree counselors who are working on hours for licensure, and it most assuredly is not for graduate students who are still working on getting their degrees. You have to be able to practice independently, and counselors have to have the ability to assess, diagnose, and treat behavioral health conditions. We have had one state that did not allow that. They have changed their diagnostic authority.

They had to do that legislatively so that they can now participate. The compact also requires that states currently license people at 60 hours, whether that's a master's degree in counseling, or the equivalent in specified coursework and clinical experiences. We do have a handful of states that don't require 60 hours. They're trying to figure out what it is that they need to do so that they can participate in the compact, because these are states that would like to participate in the compact, but currently cannot. There are some misunderstandings about that. People are concerned about professional development, because every state has different requirements.

The reality is everything is based on your home state license. Whatever the date of your home state license is, that is how your privileges, your privilege or privileges, will fall. If your home state license starts on July 1, then even if you get a privilege to practice in December, it will still expire June 30th, and July 1, you'll have to request the privilege to practice again. That's because states don't want anybody practicing in their state on an expired license. But the good part about that is you're only required to do the professional development for your home state license.

If you have privileges in five states, you don't have to keep track of five different sets of requirements and five different due dates and five different sets of payments to states. Now, it will cost you to request a privilege, but it's not the same thing as requesting a license. There's a lot of confusion about how this is all actually going to work. I get a lot of questions also from people who hold licenses in states where they don't live, because they live in a border state or the border area, or for whatever reason, they don't hold a home state license. Well, that gets a little complicated. If you want to practice in another state, then you have to either...

If you want to practice in more than one other state where you don't hold a license, then you will have to get a home state license. But if you only want to continue to practice practice in the state where you hold a license, then you don't have to participate in the compact. You can continue to practice on that license in that state. We see a lot of that for people who live in one state or area and work in a different state.

Christa Butler:

Yes. Thank you for clarifying all of that and what you were speaking to as far as having a license in one state, but working in another where ACA is located. At least in Virginia, in the DMV area, we see this type of thing all the time. I'm sure we'll need a lot more information and clarity to understand what the compact does and does not allow. I encourage counselors to seek out additional resources information, which we'll share later on in our podcast.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

The other thing is the compact doesn't require anybody to do anything that they're not currently doing. This is an option, a voluntary option. This is supposed to make it easier for people who want to practice in other states. But if that's not your situation, then you can say, "Hey, this is really great. What a terrific idea. I support all of my colleagues. Doesn't impact me."

Emily St. Amant:

Gotcha. I think that that's the most important thing is that this is for the people that want and to really help people. I think a lot of people are going to breathe a sigh relief about the CEs, because I think that that's just... A lot of people are keeping track of all of that. There's just so many benefits for counselors that live in states that have enacted this. Are there any other benefits that you can think of that you didn't cover just now about for the counselors that live in these compact states?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Well, I think it certainly provides or allows for continuity of care, which is a huge issue. Particularly one of the things the pandemic showed us is that we have so many deficits in our mental health delivery system. We always knew that there were so many unserved areas, but now we also know that there aren't enough providers. I know that people are very concerned if they move that they'll never be able to find somebody else, another mental health professional, with whom to move. As long as they're moving to another compact state and their counselor lives in a compact state, there is that option of continuing with the person that they have been seeing.

There's a lot of comfort in that, particularly since counseling, as with other mental health professions, is such an intimate relationship. It's based on that relationship between the client and the counselor and the trust that's developed. It's very hard for some people to establish that kind of relationship with someone new, if they can even find someone. Chances are, they've got a month or two or three month lag before anybody else can even see them. I really think that it supports clients in a very large way, as well as allowing counselors to do things that they want to do.

Emily St. Amant:

Absolutely. It allows counselors to better support their clients.

Christa Butler:

Well, the other benefit as well is for individuals who are in the military and for military spouses. Is that something that you can speak on for us as well?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Sure. I alluded to it before, but military families deploy every couple of years. One of the reasons that the Department of Defense is so supportive of compacts is because they're trying to do everything they can to make it easier for military families as they transition from deployment to deployment. They've targeted a number of occupations that typically have a significant number of military spouses working, and counseling is one of those. Military spouses can decide as long as their spouse is on active duty or in the reserves, they decide what they want their home state license to be. It doesn't have to be where they are physically living.

It has to be a compact state where they hold a license, and then they can practice for as long as the spouse is on active duty or reserves on that license. They don't even have to request another privilege. They're allowed to use that home state license in every deployment. Once the spouse leaves the military, then they have to play by the same rules as all other counselors do. They would either have to request a privilege if they want to keep practicing and it's a different state, or in some cases, they do go back to their home state. That's a decision that they would make at the end of the spouse's career.

Emily St. Amant:

Gotcha. I think that all those considerations really shows how much that we support the military and the families that also make a lot of sacrifices with that active service person. I think a lot of people are going to really benefit from this, and I think it's just great to see that level of support being offered to people.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

I've heard such hard stories from counselors to military spouses and they have to have Excel spreadsheets by state where they hold a license and what the requirements are and the dates and how much they... Just to keep track of everything that they have to keep track of. This is going to make it so much easier and alleviate a lot of frustration, anxiety, worry. Much it's going to facilitate their ability to work.

Christa Butler:

For states who have not yet enacted legislation to participate in the Counseling Compact, how can counselors help to move it forward in those states?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

When we started this whole process, we had this grand plan. NCIC suggests that you start with states that have enacted a number of other compacts. They call that low hanging fruit, because if a state has already enacted a couple of compacts, particularly occupational compacts, their legislatures are much more likely to want to be willing to enact the Counseling Compact. There are a couple of other occupational compacts that are moving along at about the same rate that we are. Frequently, three or four compacts will end up in a legislature at the same time.

What we found though is it became a bit of a free for all, because the states got so excited about the compact, the counselors were just coming forth. In one case, a legislator came forth and we didn't even know that this legislator was sponsoring our compact, let alone anybody else's. We suddenly got an alert that the bill was in their legislature. Now, it didn't pass this year, but I'm sure it will next year. Right now we're looking at all, but about five of the remaining states as being likely places for people to start working on legislation. A couple of them introduced legislation this year, and for whatever reason, couldn't get it through.

In one case, the legislature ended before the bill passed, things like that. We think that there are likely going to be another 20 or 30 states, well, 25 states, that are going to be looking at licensure legislation for next year. We suggest to counselors that they go talk to their professional association because somebody is spearheading this in their state and that would be the most logical place to start. The ACA branch would be a good place to start. We're also working very closely with AMHCA chapters and other groups. In some cases, it's independent groups of counselors that aren't affiliated with either of the professional associations.

But chances are, the ACA branch knows what's going on. They've passed other legislation, and that would be a good place to get involved. I don't encourage anybody to start contacting legislators or lobbyists or going out on your own. Because when that happens, sometimes it gets a little convoluted if you have multiple people thinking that they're pushing legislation through. This is important. We don't want to irritate legislators. There was a little bit of that going on in one state where two groups were working on this and didn't know the other group was working on it. It's really, really important to coordinate and collaborate with the other counseling groups in your state.

Christa Butler:

It sounds like the thing for counselors to do is to continue to work with other counselors and to continue to work with the associations and continue to work collaboratively, so that we can continue to make progress with getting the compact reenacted in those states that enacted... Sorry, in those states that it's not already enacted.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Absolutely. I think it's just a question of time before the majority of states, most of the states and a couple of the territories, will enact the compact legislation. One of the things that's so different for me about this legislation as opposed to trying to get licensure, for example, is there's no opposition. This is very bipartisan. In fact, it's probably already passed in more red states than blue states. Everybody sees the need for mental health services. This is not a partisan issue. This is not a turf issue. All of the other mental health associations either have their own compact or they're working on their own compact.

Once again, it's very collaborative that the other organizations are supportive of the Counseling Compact and we're supportive of their compacts. Nobody is arguing against. You might hear in some states, the nursing compact, for example, got blocked in a couple of states. That's because nurses have unions in many states and the unions were not on board. That's certainly not the situation with counselors. It's just so wonderful to work on something, on a piece of legislation that doesn't have opposition. We don't have to go in and sell the need for it to legislators. We, meaning counselors in general, not me personally, just have to explain to them how this is going to work.

They all want to know how it's going to work and if it's going to cost their state money. When they find out that this is basically revenue neutral, then they were on board.

Emily St. Amant:

Yeah, I think that's so great to hear, especially counselors, the whole counseling community, supporting this together, and then we're supporting other professions and they're supporting us. I think that it's just such, like you said, such a cool thing to see everybody come together for this really important initiative. I think that the people that joined this past year, they get to select somebody to be on the commission, right? I think a lot of people might want to know if there is an update on that, or if meetings are going to be open to the public. What's the next step for the commission?

Dr. Lynn Linde:

Each state licensing board that is part of the compact will select one person to be their commissioner. Assuming we have 17 states on board, there will be 17 commissioners initially. They're going to meet the end of October in DC. We are planning an in person meeting, but there will be an option for virtual for those states that cannot participate in person. And their task is to start writing the rules and figuring out how this is all going to work. Now, they're not starting from scratch because the National Center for Interstate Compacts has done this with a lot of compacts and they still work with a number of compacts that are up and running.

We have lots of examples, just looking at other compacts on how to make this work. Some of it though will be specific to counseling. But in general, how compacts work is generic to compacts. Establishing what are they going to use as the database, what are the rules. Are there going to be enough people at that meeting? With 17, do they want to elect an executive committee? What are the terms of office? Those kinds of things, the general kinds of things. One of the questions that I get asked a lot is, okay, so we have 17 states initially and they write the rules on how the compact is going to work.

What happens to all the states that come on board in the 2023 legislature? Don't they get anything to say? Well, yes and no. The rules will exist. If somebody really has a problem with one of the rules, then certainly they can bring that up as a commissioner to the other commissioners and request that they reexamine that rule. But just like bylaws changes for organizations, it probably takes... They will probably decide, I'm guessing because it's Robert's Rules, that would take a two-thirds vote of the commissioners to change an existing rule. One of the things about the compact is it's based on trust.

States have gotten to a point where they're trusting each other, that they've trust that licensing boards aren't licensing anybody who has not been thoroughly vetted and is highly qualified to be licensed. States have had to get beyond their specific requirements to say, "I trust that you're doing your due diligence, as are we. We're going to allow your folks into our state to practice." The commission's a little bit like that too. These are licensing board folks, and so they have to trust that they know what each other is doing, that they're writing rules that are appropriate. They're going to facilitate the implementation of the compact.

The other thing is they're an administrative body. They become a quasi-governmental agency. It's not like they have any authority to change anything that's in the legislation. All they do is decide on the rules for what is this going to look like? How is this actually going to work? It's more of the nitty gritty details. And then the commission will start granting privileges, but we expect that that won't be until later in 2023. It'll probably take the commission close to a year, nine months to a year, to get everything done. Because after the first meeting, it will all be done virtually and electronically, and then hopefully they'll be ready by somewhere between July and December of 2023 to start granting privileges.

Emily St. Amant:

Okay, that's great. I think a lot of people are curious to know that information and just to know what's coming and to have that to look forward to. Thank you so much for that, and thank you for joining us today, Lynn. We really appreciate you sharing your expertise and your passion for the Counseling Compact with us and our listeners today.

Dr. Lynn Linde:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Emily St. Amant:

Now, I know we got to cover a lot about the compact today, but we did not have time to cover everything. There are some additional resources that we wanted to recommend to our listeners if you have more questions or if you want to learn how to advocate for it in your state. The first resource is counselingcompact.org. Now, this is the website run by the National Center for Interstate Compacts, and it has an update map where you can find where we are in various states for enacting the compact. It also has the actual bill itself if you're curious what that actual compact legislative language is, that's there, and there's several other really great resources as well.

Definitely check that out. The ACA also offers a couple resources. We have a great PDF summary, which can be found at counseling.org under the knowledge center and the licensure requirements section. Scroll all the way down to the bottom and you'll find that there. If you're an ACA member, you get a free one hour CE course about the Counseling Compact. Dr. Linde joins us for that as well and she talks even more about the history, specifics about the compact, and what it means for counselors. This is a really great resource for our members and counselors to learn more. And that can be found on our website, counseling.org under continuing education.

Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple and Google and follow us on socials. We will be announcing various updates on the compact there as well. Whenever a state enacts the compact, we definitely celebrate that there. To join the ACA and have access to all the member benefits, check out our website, counseling.org. Thank you so much for joining us today. We hope you have a great rest of your day.

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ACA provides these podcasts solely for informational and educational purposes. Opinions expressed in these podcasts do not necessarily reflect the view of ACA. ACA is not responsible for the consequences of any decisions or actions taken in reliance upon or as a result of the information and resources provided in this program. This program is copyright 2022 by the American Counseling Association. All rights reserved.