Voice of Counseling Podcast

The Voice of Counseling Podcast

Episode Transcripts

Counseling Women Trailblazers: Pt. 1 - S1E2

by Joseph Peters | Aug 26, 2021

 

Voiceover: Welcome to The Voice of Counseling presented by the American Counseling Association. This program is hosted by Dr. S. Kent Butler. This week's episode is titled Counseling Women Trailblazers, part one, and features Dr. Beverly O'Bryant. 

Dr. S. Kent Butler: Welcome to The Voice of Counseling from the American Counseling Association, I'm Dr. S. Kent Butler, and I'll be hosting today's podcast. Joining us today is Dr. Beverly O'Bryant, a mentor, friend, colleague, she's the academic dean and past president of the American Counseling Association. Welcome. 

Dr. Beverly O'Bryant: Welcome, Dr. Kent Butler, how are you? 

Kent: I'm phenomenal and I'm excited to have you as a guest on the podcast today. You are a very instrumental person in my life, and it has been phenomenal to have you see my journey and me watch your journey. Before we even get started with this, I came up to you- 

Beverly: [laughs] I always know where you’re going. 

Kent: -2005 or 2006 after watching you from afar. Everybody was always like, "That's Beverly O'Bryant, Beverly O'Bryant." You would walk. You were sharp. You were just one of those icons at the conferences. I walked up to you not knowing you, you not knowing me and I said to you at the time when you were about to become president of MTV. I said, "If there's anything that I can do to support you, to help you during your year, please don't hesitate to get in touch with me." I don't know what I did. 

I must've given you a business card or something along those lines, and you probably just looked at me like, "Who's this kid and I don't care about you," and you move on. I think I got home from the conference, and like two days or three days later, something must have stuck because you contacted me and put me to work almost immediately. 

Beverly: Immediately. Clearly, I didn't think, "Who is this person?" The truth is I had seen you before at the conferences because you were already starting to be visible and speaking out about things and making your mark. Though we hadn't met, you clearly were a person that I thought I could speak to and I did. You may regret it because you were the conference chair for the next three years. 

Kent: Seven years actually that I was able to do that work, but you were very instrumental in getting me started and moving towards leadership in the organization. There were other people who I reached out to who would help me in terms of the academic side of the house as a counselor educator but in leadership. That's one of your things, you want to grow leaders. Can you talk a little bit about that and what was that part of you that you wanted to give back to the Counseling Association, especially when it came to growing leaders? 

Beverly: I think one of the reasons is because I have over the years as an African-American woman, and at the time when I started, I was also younger than most of the people with whom I was interacting. I was faced with a lot of I'll call them challenges that I had to turn around to make opportunities. One of the things I realized was that if you're going to come to the table, one, you do have to come to the table with something. If you're coming with strikes against you that were not of your own making, to begin with, then you have to find a way to overcome those embedded strikes that you can't do anything about because you're not exactly sure what they are. 

The other thing was in leadership roles, in an organization or association, such as this, your time there is short. Therefore, if you really want to make an impact, you have to know what's there before you got there. There's things you have to understand about organizational structure, about human dynamics, and all of those things that make something successful in the end. Otherwise, you will spend your entire time in leadership trying to undo or get to where you wanted to be at the beginning and you don't get there to the end and you do nothing. 

I think that's part of it and I think while there is such a thing as on-the-job training and learning, you really do have to come with some specific skills before you get there. If you don't know what a strategic plan is, and you don't know that there's someplace or some pieces already in place, it doesn't necessarily stifle your creativity in trying to implement it, but you can't just come up with these things that you think that you can do and do them in the course of a year. That's a big part of it. 

Then you need to understand the overall big picture and where the organization is going and understanding that in the final analysis, which was something really interesting that as president of ACA, one of the things that I did, we had a little listening, talking session before we started Governing Council. What we realized was that you could get nowhere simply because of Robert's rule. If someone knows how to orchestrate it well enough, you can legislate yourself right out of, or rule yourself right out of getting anything done. 

While it's a good thing, sometimes you have to have the meeting before the meeting, to have the discussion about what the discussion is going to be about. The people start on a field that allows you to go somewhere. All of these things that I've learned over time because my leadership and the organization has been over a course of years. I now realize I am truly one of the chronologically gifted ones in the organization. There's nothing I can do about that. 

Kent: I think that's one of your favorite lines. to use. 

Beverly: That's my favorite line chronologically gifted, but it is important. Thomas Parham sticks in my mind when I think of that term. I don't know whether we ever talked about it, I don't know what it is. Anyway, leadership became important to me because of that. The other reason is because I've seen too many times where not just our organizations, in many organizations that volunteer leaders that someone says, "Who wants to be president next?" Which is not necessarily the good of the whole. 

They know when you do that, that doesn't mean that the person coming in has any historical or institutional knowledge about what's going on, has no direction about where they want to go. They may have some wonderful ideas, but they don't necessarily fit with what you're trying to do, or they don't know how to creatively roll them in. All of those things are reasons that I felt that we need to grow leaders. The other reason is because I wanted to see other than the standard that I'd always seen in leadership roles, which quite frankly at my age level were primarily white males. 

I wanted to see all of that change. I wanted to see people who were younger coming into the field and finding ways to have them. When I came in, I was always having to prove that there was something in my head besides matching my clothes to walls, which I wanted to do. I like chandeliers and I liked things looking right. All those things were important to me, but I do know how to balance a checkbook and I know how to speak. All those things were the things that made me think that growing leadership was important. 

Having people tell you some of the things that are sometimes so obvious that you don't think they're worth saying but they are. 

Kent: The theme for the day is counseling women trailblazers, and you pretty much have scored stuff the roadway with all the things that you have done in terms of your leadership, your ability to just brighten up a room. Everybody comes to the conference hoping to see Beverly O'Bryant. Not just the fashion diva, Beverly O'Bryant, but also the thought leader and the person who has done so much in their career. You've been president of three major organizations in counseling. You've done much more than that. You're a dean, Academic Dean at Coppin. 

So much of what you have done should be revered because of who you are and what you bring to the table. What that you'd started? Who are your mentors? How did that today you would be the Beverley O'Bryant that you are today? 

Beverly: I don't know that I knew that I was going to be this person a long time ago, but I will say that my mother told me that I could do anything I wanted to do if I wanted to do it badly enough. I think that that's important because I grew up at a time where there weren't a lot of role models. There weren't a lot of people who said things like you can do anything you want to be if you want to be. There wasn't a lot of talk about gender issues back then or ageism. I was listening to the Olympics this morning and I know how I feel about Simone Biles. 

I know that we in our profession know the importance of mental wellness and mental health because we deal with mental illness, but just like all the other terrorists things have happened in the world, mental wellness has become an issue. Those were things that I had support systems around me when I was coming up that I always considered a blessing because I saw a lot of people who didn't. I had colleagues and friends, for instance, whose spouses says, "What do you mean you're doing that?" 

I was fortunate enough to have a husband who was strong enough in his own skin that he could deal with me thinking I was going to do what I was going to do. He didn't hinder me from doing it. He supported me in doing it and back then, I don't think a whole lot of men wanted their wives running around, who's going to go do the soccer. He wouldn't get the kids from soccer. He made sure they got to piano practice. He did those things if I wasn't home, but at the same time, I also traveled with my daughter's algebra book. 

I also made plane trips that had DC as a stopping point. I was still the soccer mom who was responsible for getting oranges and getting things for my son's soccer. I was still a part of all those things. It was really a matter of balancing your life. When you do that, you still have to have a support system. I had one, so it started out with my parents supporting what I did as a child. Then my husband doing the same thing. I remember one time I came home from work and my son who at the time was nine years old in fourth grade and he said, "Are you running for anything now, mom?" 

I said, "No," because they were used to stuffing-- This is way before. We were stuffing envelopes and doing them, making posters, but I was doing things on a typewriter and computers were just coming in. [unintelligible 00:13:21] from Colorado taught me how to use my first Mac, which is still in my office at home. He said, "Are you running for anything now?" I said, "No, Mikey, I'm not." He said, "I'm running for class president. Can you help me with my poster?" It is a matter of sometimes you're modeling, you don't know you're modeling. It's about supporting things. 

I grew up with that thinking, well, I can do certain things. Then I was fortunate enough and I'll say fortunate enough to marry someone who was supportive of that as well. The things that I had to deal with in leadership had more to do with external factors than it had to do with internal factors. 

Kent: I have to give kudos to your husband, Michael, who allowed me to enter in and have space in your life. The number of days that I got to spend in DC and hanging out at your house and stay at your house and really become family members. You have been instrumental in my life. I just offered you an opportunity for an invitation to my wedding and you were like, "Yes, I'm there." I was like, "Okay, she's not really going to be there." Then the next thing I know, who's coming to St. Thomas to my wedding, but Beverly O'Bryant. 

You already know you're my queen, you're royalty to me, but just that you would again, see me. Again, you said that you saw me before I knew that you saw me. You also, in our journey together, always let me know that you saw me. You always supported me and you always helped me edit things and helped me write things and do things that were necessary to move forward. Can you talk about what that mentorship is like for you? When do you tap in? 

When do you allow yourself to be exposed and bring your sense of loyalty and I guess, your sense of what it means to be a professional into the lives of other individuals? 

Beverly: Well, sometimes I really think it's when someone is open to it. One of the things that I realized is that, I think mentoring is a very important thing. I never had a mentor until I was working on my doctoral program. That's the first time I've ever had a mentor in my life, who really steered me in certain ways. Even at that, one of the things I realized is that you can't necessarily put people together and say that they're mentor or mentee. It has to be something that's open on both sides, that's something that's desired that to do, and someone's open to listening to that. 

That doesn't mean you always have to agree. I had some of the most violent arguments I've ever had was with my mentor, who told me, I couldn't go to my children's homecoming at Hampton University, because I had a statistics exam the next day. I said, "I'm a grown woman. You can't tell me I can't go." Well, least to say, actually I didn't go. I did have a statistics exam on Monday. I hated statistics at the time. I stayed home, and I studied it. 

I think that you allow yourself to be open to those kinds of things, when you sense that someone wants it, listens to it, won't be offended by it, and can accept it as something you want to give because there's something you've learned. 

Kent: I saw that you saw things in me. Sometimes you wanted things more for me than I want it for myself. In terms of taking on challenges and saying, "Well, I'm going to do this." I remember you also saying to me at times, "No, you're going to do this." 

Beverly: That's right. 

Kent: "You're going to stay in this, and you're going to do this." That's the kind of sowing into someone that helps them to become who they're ultimately going to become because there's so many blind spots that people have. One of the things that you have been able to do with individuals is to see their blind spot and cultivate that for them to be able to see past that. Can you talk about what it is, how are you so instrumental in that way? What is it that allows you to be intuitive enough to see what people need and how they can move forward? 

Beverly: I think, actually, some of that is what I didn't have and things that I realized that had I had, things might have been different, or if someone had said things to me earlier on because the truth is, life is not a rehearsal. It is. Every day it is and windows and doors open, but they also close. If you're not ready to seize the moment when they come, those opportunities pass you by. There is something to be said for taking advantage of the moment when it's there. That is not mean that every opportunity is one you should take. 

You have to be thoughtful about it and what are the consequences to your family or to you or to the people. As you said that, what crossed my mind just now was I saw that they had an interview this morning with Simone Biles and Hoda Kotb was the one-- They were saying, "What made you not go forth with that? If you could get yourself ready to do this in why didn't you try to do that?" She said, "Because I realized one, I wasn't ready to go. That my head was not there." 

As an aside, only I can't even imagine what it's like to be upside down. I have no idea where you are. That's the most disturbing-- It could have been a life-altering literally experience. 

Kent: Exactly. 

Beverly: One of the things she said was that one, we are team two, it was an opportunity for the other girls to step up and I was there to support them, not go off in a corner. I think all of those pieces have to do with trying to know when it's right time to do something and when it's the wrong time. She still had an opportunity to come back, but in the end, she said, "I'm more than my medals." I have had many opportunities in my life, and one of the greatest things I think that I can say is that all the time that I had been working, I can honestly say I enjoyed what I was doing. That's number one. 

I actually had the luxury of enjoying my work. Some people work because they have to work. I had to work. I did have to have a salary, but I also had the pleasure of liking what I was doing. Again, it was the opportunity to do other things and thinking I could make a difference in other places. When you see those kind of things, then you want to take those opportunities to do it. I also know that a lot of what I did was my intuitiveness or my decision to go beyond what other people say I couldn't go. 

Other than my family and my husband, who were not necessarily in my field, you didn't have a lot of people saying, "Oh, yes, go for that. Yes, go for that." The time can pass you by so quickly. I think a lot of the things that I tell other people are the experiences that I had or didn't have. Or things that I wish I had known when I was their age, and those kind of opportunities were there, and I didn't take them. 

Kent: When did you know you arrived? 

Beverly: That I had arrived? 

Kent: Yes. 

Beverly: I never actually thought about that I have arrived. I've never thought about things in that way. I do remember-- 

Kent: Let me do it from this point of view. The question still stands. You were past president of American School Counselor Association, you were past president of American Counseling Association, you were past President of Association for Multicultural Counseling Development. Very much so that you have motivations and you were inspired to do that. In a very real sense, what would you say was your major motivation, your inspiration in doing so? That leads into how did you know you arrived because something in you spark the ability to become the leader of all three of those organizations. 

You have something to give, but in doing so, you may not have thought about it in terms of you have arrived, but you being there, you being that trailblazer, helped change the trajectory of a lot of other people who saw you and were the mentees, people who have taken on your role model to move themselves forward. That's what I mean by that. People who have come up to you, because I was one of them, looking up to you and saying, "Oh, my God." They'll put you on counseling royalty up on the pedestal. I know that has happened. 

When did you realize that, "I have something I need to do with this? I've arrived now. I now have to give back to my community"? 

Beverly: I remember being in a delegate assembly with American School Counselor Association because that's where my roots started, with the American School Counselor Association. We were sitting at a delegate assembly and I was talking to some of my colleagues from other states, and we were discussing counseling issues. I had something I hadn't thought about that. I remember standing up and talking about it. That was the first time that one, I think, people had heard me speak about something singularly that was extemporaneously presented. 

Several people after that said, "You have a good point about that. You need to lead us doing this initiative," which was a surprise to me, I guess. I hadn't thought about it one way or the other, I just needed to speak my mind and I thought that was the best way to do it or get my point across. Then someone said, "You should run for office." I ended up being the chair of Interprofessional Relations Committee for ASCA. and Dave Capozzi and I were on this panel. You know how you say to someone, good luck when you're all sitting there. We were in California at a university and we're all getting up. 

Dave said, "Good luck, break a leg," or something like that. I got up and I spoke about interprofessional relations. When I came back and I just sat down and he said, "Well, you really did do a good job." I thought, "Well, that's an interesting statement." That was the first time I started realizing that actually people were listening to me. The next time, fast forward to when I was president of ASCA and we had our delegate assembly. It happened to have been in Cleveland and Michael, my husband had a deposition in Cleveland. 

He did not come there for the ASCA convention. He came there for that, but because he was there, he came by the hotel. Well, he always thought I was having a great time at these conventions and I just enjoyed it. I don't think he gave that much thought to exactly what was going on although he was the one, ironically, he said years before, "Why don't you start working with a national organization as a localist because you're always a committee of one." He said, "I bet there may be committees with more people if you worked at a national level." 

He was right. He came to that and he came to the delegate assembly. First, he found out that everybody else in my suite was going out and I stayed in. He was ready to go out, waiting for me. They said, "She's not coming she's on tomorrow. She's only out when she's not on," next day. Which was a concept he because I do like to go out and party and have fun. I work hard, I play hard, but I know when to do which. That was the first thing. The next day at delegate assembly and he saw how one, it was run. It was just like a Senate 

We could've just as easily been in the Congress. He said, "That was amazing that all those people were listening to you." Now that may be a husband-wife statement that he's tired of listening to me. I was starting to realize that one, I'm not crazy. I do have something to say, and if you say it correctly, you can bring others along with that. I don't know that I thought of that as having arrived, but I do know that I started realizing that this was a venue in which I thought I could make a difference in our profession. I love counseling. 

I really loved what I was doing and because I started out in school counseling, I'm very much a people person, to begin with. I went into secondary education and administration much later, but my degrees were all around in that area. I'm in counseling and psychology and supervision and policy. Those were all things that wasn't foreign to me at all and it was a way of using them. When I realized that that platform was usable, I used it. 

Kent: You used it. What would be your advice to new people coming along? What kinds of examples, especially in this day and age. How do people get spark to do the work that you were doing? 

Beverly: Well, I think the first thing is that they actually need to start at the ground floor. I think they need to start belonging to their state organizations and become active and know what it is, whatever that is. If they were talking about counseling associations, we still have branches and state divisions and counterparts on all the national levels. Understand what's going on so that whatever it is you're doing you can take to national, you can bring back from national. One of the reasons I'm interested in growing leadership because I think that that's something that hasn't happened. 

My love for government relations started with the ACA government relations because I went because somebody else couldn't go when I was president-elect. It literally changed the whole trajectory of what I saw important for counselors to know and understand when I was actually then president-elect and president of ACA. I would suggest that they do start at the ground floor and become involved and then become involved at the national level being on committees so that you can become a chair so you can be responsive to some of the things that come up. 

Kent: To our viewing public and those who are listening, this is one of the reasons why this woman is so instrumental in my life. We're talking about counseling women trailblazers, and Dr. Beverly O'Bryant is definitely one of those trailblazers. We are about to take a break. As we do that, I just want them to know that The Voice of Counseling from the American counseling association will continue in a few moments. 

[music] 

Voiceover: Counselors help positively impact lives by providing support, wellness, treatment. We're working to change lives. We are creating a world where every person has access to the quality professional counseling and mental health services needed to thrive. 

Kent: Welcome back. Thank you, Dr. O'Bryant for being one of our inaugural guests in this podcast. 

Beverly: My pleasure. Thank you for having me. 

Kent: When you think about your career, is there something that you would like to leave the counseling world? What would be your legacy? 

Beverly: My legacy? I never quite thought about that, but I do know that all the time that I was in leadership, one of the things that I was thought was the most important, really was government relations and public relations. I thought that we needed to get outside of ourselves and have the world understand who we were. Unfortunately, it has been all these tragedies and horrible things that have come along, but I do remember way back when I started, they never talked about professional counselors being the ones to come in to address a situation. 

It was always psychologists or social workers, but they never talked about professional counselors. My focus has always been raising, generating counselors. In my teaching, it's still that, who are clear about who they are, who can articulate who they are so that in a broader sense, people understand us because of what we do and because we've articulated what we do. So that we both say it and we show it. We walk the walk, talk the talk. I would hope that my legacy would have something to do with leadership and growing leaders and helping us as professionals expand our thinking to move, to understand the importance of government relations in what we do and PR in what we do. 

I think that's what I used to do, that's what I would like to continue to do. It's harder in my role right now. One of the things about going to-- I'll say honestly, going to our conferences is it's always refreshing to me. It's also perked me up to see my colleagues and to listen to the things that are going on to watch new people. I actually meet a lot of younger people at the conferences. A lot of those people because of some of the forums that I've been fortunate enough to participate in, I meet them that way and then we kept in touch. 

I do the same thing with them when asked or when they're interested in it to get them going because that's what has to happen for us to preserve ourselves. 

Kent: I know you have to be a worker bee, while your first name is Beverly Worker Bee. When you brought me on to be the conference chairperson-- 

Beverly: You had no idea you'd be working at four o'clock in the morning, did you? 

Kent: You had expectations, you had high expectations. You were like, 'We're doing this, this, this, and this. You're going to meet me in Detroit," because that's where the conference was that year. "You're going to meet me in Detroit. We're going to look at the venue. We're going to do this, this, this, this, and that. Then I was like, "Okay, this is serious." The second day that you called me, was the day that you said, "Okay, let me know what your plans are because I need to know if you can fly up to meet me in Detroit." and I was, "Okay, so this is a business. This is serious here." 

That being said, I've gotten to know you we've talked on the phone. We've texted, we've e-mailed back and forth sometimes one, two, three, four o'clock in the morning, as you said. I remember being at your home that first year, worked with another team of people, trying to make sure that the conference got off okay because you were about perfecting and making sure that everything was where it needed to be. I think that I was able to meet that mark and get that to happen but you led me into being able to be a conference chairperson and do other things. 

Not only did I do that, but it led me to being a part of the 2020 Initiative. It led me to finally becoming an AMCD president now, ACA president. You have been able to instill in me, you're passive, but you are a busy person. The question really is, what do you do to slow down? What's your self-care, how do you take care of yourself? 

Beverly: Well, I'm working on my self-care a little better, but the statement I made earlier, I work hard and I play hard. I have believed in that all of my life, and while I may have slowed down a little bit in terms of the hard part of it, I may play less hard. I may work less hard, but I still work hard and play hard, but that's my balance. For me, cleaning a closet and keep getting the drawers right was what cleared my head. Skiing was a way of clearing my head, hand dancing was a way of clearing my head. 

I'd do things that I was generally with other people, but skiing became a passion. I went from skiing to racing, and I became a downhill slalom racer, and I loved it and I have been doing it for the last 20 years. I loved it. My self-care is trying to do the things that I enjoy doing. I also like traveling. It was hard to get my husband to go with me a lot of times because he was in court a lot. He's an attorney, I understand his schedule is-- but we do more of that now. Of course, we got shut down because of pandemic, but that's something we will resume. 

A lot of my self-care I've enjoyed my children, we have a very tight family as you know, and still do things together. Even though they're grown and long since gone and we got one only one grandchild, with who's now going to college, I can't believe it. He's going to Morehouse and we're leaving next week. I can't wait for him. I'm so excited for him. They've always been a big part of my life. That's part of my balance. Those are the things, I don't give up. I have a cadre of friends that I stay close with. 

Ironically, the pandemic has thrown us on the computers which we-- Actually, I've been to fashion shows on zoom, we visited friends on zoom who were sick and in the hospital. We've had sip and paint parties on zoom. We still maintain some of those things and now I'm starting to do exercise, but I'm realizing that the work is never going to stop. It's never going to end and no matter how much you do, it's never finished. If you don't find 15 minutes for yourself somewhere, you're never going to find 15 minutes for yourself. 

That's part of my self-care is now realizing that I got to take a half-hour and listen to the water fountain in my office, I have one of those too [crosstalk] I have a water fountain. Sometimes I just have to shut my eyes and- 

Kent: Let's listen to it, the water. 

Beverly: Just to it. 

Kent: You said you like to travel and so I know that you've been to Africa, you have a lot of different causes that you partake in. Anything special coming up for you in your travels? Any breaks that you're looking to move to or go to and in the next-- I guess when the pandemic [unintelligible 00:39:47]. 

Beverly: One of the things I want to start doing, I started a travel abroad program here at Coppin and for three years we were in Ghana for 30 days each year. We did a six-hour course that students took half of it for seven and a half weeks, of the semester. Then the other seven and a half was really technically abroad. I loved it. That was wonderful. I really want to get that started again. I'm finding I'm starting to lean toward all those things that you can't do when you're a dean because you're all caught up in administration. 

I'm interested in research and going back to reading, writing, and speaking. Those are the things. If I had my rathers, that's what I want to do now. Michael and I have planned for trips we're going to Puerto Rico in November if all things are straight. We have the reservations for them, but we still plan a family trip every year. Those are the kinds of things I'm interested in doing. I'm looking forward to going back skiing. I had a really bad accident a couple of years ago. The racing is now no longer part of my-- 

Kent: [unintelligible 00:41:06]. 

Beverly: That's a hard pill to swallow, but I'm glad I can get out on the snow and enjoy. As one of my girlfriends said-- I saw her at the African-American Museum just before we shut down. They said, "You don't have to skate to go to the summit." That never crossed my mind because I do nothing but skiing, skiing party. I went to one summit after my accident and I couldn't ski and I swore I'd never go again until I could ski but now I can. Now the doctor has released me to go can't race, but I can ski. I'm going to do that. I'm looking forward to those slow-down moments. 

Kent: Oh, excellent. I feel like I know so much about you in terms of that, but what are the things as we start to wrap up today, you, your husband, and your family do a charity event every year in which you give back to the communities, especially children, who are in need. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired you to do that and what it is that comes out of this pouring of love that you have from your community of people? 

Beverly: Well, 15 years ago now, Michael said, we ought to have a Beverley O'Bryant party the way you want to do it. It was for Children's Hospital and both of our children when they were small, needed Children's Hospital. Children's Hospital was there for us. When you're young parents, new parents, a parent at all, with any child who is sick, it's nothing worse than seeing a sick child. It's worse than seeing a sick adult. It's horrible. Children's Hospital meant a lot to us. We started having a party and we wanted to provide fun for family, friends, acquaintances, colleagues, and the food, music, drinks, fun. 

The price of admission is a wonderful toy that they would bring. Oh, the first party, I think we had 50 people that we invited. Michael and I answered the door, hung up the coats, served food, were the bartenders and the music people. That lasted for about three years. By the third year, when we had about 200 people, we decided that was too much for us to do. There we have a full complement of somebody comes in, who answers the door. Jordan was taking pictures of people as they came in. It's always been a family affair. 

You were there before the last one before the pandemic. 

Kent: I was there before the pandemic, yes. Can I stop you there for a second? 

Beverly: Yes. 

Kent: At your home, you catering food, you have valet parking and you have people coming in, dropping off gifts. I've seen things from as big as bicycles to computer games and other things that people were bringing in and for these children. It was a phenomenal thing to do. Then you pivoted during the pandemic and did it via zoom. Can you talk a little bit about what that change was? 

Beverly: Our guest list is about 700 people who actually are invited to our home. They have more than that who come because people call and say, "Can so-and-so come," and they say, "Yes. They have to bring a toy." We're now in the neighborhood of maybe $4,000 or $5,000 in toys that we contribute to National Children's Center every year. Last year because of the pandemic, we could not collect toys so we did food. My son said, "Why don't we do food? The food lines were horrendous." 

We had cars coming down our street all the way up. We collected three trucks of food that went to Martha's Table which was wonderful and people were happy to give. Then that went on from noon until 6:00 PM and then the zoom party started at 7:00 PM. We were all outside in the car. We had fire out there and water, everyone got to come up and get drinks and things. There were gift bags that they took with them. We had a party outside, social distance with masks, and my whole family, the eight of us were all collecting and putting things, food products into-- food and household items. I was very proud of that. 

Kent: I got to be a part of that as well. 

Beverly: Then we partied on zoom. 

Kent: Right. The party on zoom and people were able to Cash App it and do things to help support the event. Just let people know this was done during the holidays in December, and that's why you met when you were outside in the cold bearing this [unintelligible 00:46:45] 

Beverly: It's always the first Saturday in December and it was cold. It was cold. I had hot cider on the porch and we had a fire on the porch and the fire in the driveway and the people just rolled in. People still happened to see one another and they felt good about doing things. They knew it was going for a good cause. We're looking forward to being back in the house this year. We have them out of the tent to the outside because that house can't accommodate. We now have all over the house, the tent outside. 

The valet parking was new because we're all realizing that we're all becoming a little more chronologically. The men were dropping off the women and the women were partying. The men were hopping and popping as they walked uphill. We thought in fairness to everybody, we now have valet parking. That has helped a lot. 

Kent: Watching those gentlemen and ladies actually run back and forth with getting people's cars and park people's cars was hilarious. I was like, "This is in someone's home." Anyway, you have always inspired me and I'm so blessed to have you as a part of my life. Had it not been for Beverly O'Bryant, I don't know what would be today because you gave me my first opportunity into leadership as a part of the conference board meeting of AMCD's part of the conference at ACA conferences. 

It's been fun. I've gotten chronologically older with you over the years. When you think about the young people who are to follow us, you have so many people who are standing on your shoulders. You were standing on other's shoulders who helped you move forward regardless of what that pathway may have looked like but you have a heart for giving back and helping people. I know that there are young people who call you and there are people new to the profession who contact you and just ask you the advice. 

You're always willing to be there and to be supportive in that way. What messages do you have for young people listening in new professionals listening in about how they can get started and really put their best foot forward when it comes to helping to change the narrative, especially when it comes to social justice? 

Beverly: Well, I think the main thing is I hope that they will follow their passions. Do not assume that somebody doesn't think that they have a good idea, be persistent because not everybody's going to think you have the best idea since sliced bread. If you don't have faith in what you're talking about, why should somebody else? You have to have that passion and when you find someone who's willing to listen to you, take them on, ask them. I can't tell you how many people have asked me, especially at ACA conferences, "Will you be my mentor? Will you be my mentor?" 

At AMCD, that's another thing that AMCD pride themselves on and Dr. Quincy Moore, that was his thing was the mentoring that he did with our students. Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. But you can always start them out to get them going, I have found that sometimes the long-distance thing now that's changed now. If we were to do it now, because zoom makes it a more personable experience, when before, all we were doing was always on my phone. We might see each other once or twice a year. 

My advice to young people is, if you find somebody, ask them, if they say "no" then say, Do you have someone who you think might do it?" 9 out 10, someone who has a propensity for doing that kind of thing, will take you on. Even if they say, "I can only do this," or, "You know what, I have a person I want you to meet that is right up your alley, doing what you would like to do." Don't make the assumption that that someone doesn't want to help you. You'll meet people in life that you just click with and when you find that person you just click with, keep on clicking. That's the way to make it work. 

Kent: #keeponclicking, okay. 

Beverly: Keep on clicking, and don't lose your passion for things because that's part of what's missing today. Be willing to do the grunt work, in order to know how to make a big difference later on. You're more impactful when you know what you're talking about. There is something to be said for knowing things underneath. There is. 

Kent: You got to have some substance. 

Beverly: We move so fast today that people get thrown to the top before they know what's underneath. You can't make a cogent decision or make the kind of impact you want if you don't know the consequences of your actions. 

Kent: Well, Dr. Beverly O'Bryant, we have come to the end of this counting hour. I am so proud to be someone who you took under your wing. Behind me, I have an award that you gave me with two other past presidents. 

Beverly: I see it. I think I do. 

Kent: The Wind Beneath My Wings, but you actually have taken me under your wing. 

Beverly: I did a speech to Wind Beneath My Wings. 

Kent: I just love you to death. I hope that people are inspired not just by your journey and what you have been able to accomplish. Not just because you are an African American woman but because you are who you are and you just happen to be an African American woman. I thank you, I thank you for always sowing into me, taking my calls. I text you and say, "Are you up?" And you text me and say "Am I up?" Then we end up on a call together. I want to thank you for always being there and just supporting me. You know how much-- 

Beverly: Well, let me just end my statement by saying how one, you know I love you too and how proud I am of you. I have watched you in trials and tribulations and I've watched you in all the wonderful times too. You are a magnificent leader, you have much to give. I'm so excited about your year as ACA president. The mere fact that you started these podcasts, I think is a wonderful idea. There's so much too that can be done. I'm looking forward to Atlanta to seeing everybody for the first time in two years. 

I've never missed an ACA convention. Not once, ever since I started. I'm looking forward to being in Atlanta for ACA, also to see my grandson at Morehouse while I'm there. I'm proud of you, Kent, and I wish you the absolute most fabulous year. Keep on pushing on. 

Kent: Keep on pushing on. Thank you so much. From the American Counseling Association, I'm Dr. S. Kent Butler. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time. 

[music] 

Voiceover: ACA provides these podcasts solely for informational and educational purposes. Opinions expressed in these podcasts do not necessarily reflect the view of ACA. ACA is not responsible for the consequences of any decisions or actions taken and reliance upon or as a result of the information and resources provided in this program. This program is copyright 2021 by the American Counseling Association. All Rights Reserved.